God was behind Big Bang, universe no accident: Pope Benedict

Yahoo News ^ | 01/06/2011 | Philip Pullella

[SeekAndFind]

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – God's mind was behind complex scientific theories such as the Big Bang, and Christians should reject the idea that the universe came into being by accident, Pope Benedict said on Thursday.

"The universe is not the result of chance, as some would want to make us believe," Benedict said on the day Christians mark the Epiphany, the day the Bible says the three kings reached the site where Jesus was born by following a star.

"Contemplating it (the universe) we are invited to read something profound into it: the wisdom of the creator, the inexhaustible creativity of God," he said in a sermon to some 10,000 people in St Peter's Basilica on the feast day.

While the pope has spoken before about evolution, he has rarely delved back in time to discuss specific concepts such as the Big Bang, which scientists believe led to the formation of the universe some 13.7 billion years ago.

Researchers at CERN, the nuclear research center in Geneva, have been smashing protons together at near the speed of light to simulate conditions that they believe brought into existence the primordial universe from which stars, planets and life on earth -- and perhaps elsewhere -- eventually emerged.

Some atheists say science can prove that God does not exist, but Benedict said that some scientific theories were "mind limiting" because "they only arrive at a certain point ... and do not manage to explain the ultimate sense of reality ..."

He said scientific theories on the origin and development of the universe and humans, while not in conflict with faith, left many questions unanswered.

[Cronos]

I also know that this is precisely the 5771st year of human history

cool, so you believe that the world was created in 3771 BC.

Good starting point. And the Sumerian cities that date back to 5400 BC (like Eridu)?

[Zionist Conspirator]

you don't believe in Christianity and don't believe Christ is the Son of God and don't believe that Christ came back to life

So? It's not in my Bible. I don't believe Mohammed rode a horse to Heaven or that Joseph Smith was visited by G-d either.

On the other hand, Genesis is in your Bible, yet you reject it in the name of uniformitarianism while you reject uniformitarianism in order to believe the "miracles" of chr*stianity. This is hypocritical in the extreme.

Why are you so threatened by Genesis? What in Genesis do you perceive threatens your Catholic beliefs?

If Genesis isn't true, take it out of your bible. That's what I did with the "new testament."

[Cronos]

I note that you earlier disputed my assertion ....since Genesis' only purpose to you is to teach "spiritual" or "theological" truths and contains no historical facts.

Another incorrect interpretation of yours -- reading qabbalistically into forum posts?

Where exactly have I said that?

You're making false inferences again.

[Zionist Conspirator]

cool, so you believe that the world was created in 3771 BC.

Actually the year 1 corresponds to 3761 bce, though I believe this is actually shenat tohu.

Good starting point. And the Sumerian cities that date back to 5400 BC (like Eridu)?

That's great. Then I guess J*sus wasn't born of a virgin, since we all know that such a thing is impossible. On the other hand, if you disregard what science teaches, then you have no grounds on which to accept the scientific dating of ancient cities.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Another incorrect interpretation of yours . . .

Where exactly have I said that?

Your last post to me ridiculing the 5771 years of human history. If you don't accept that (based on all the chronologies of Genesis), then you reject the facticity of Genesis in favor of "spiritual truth."

[Cronos]

Cronos: you don't believe in Christianity and don't believe Christ is the Son of God and don't believe that Christ came back to life

ZC: So? It's not in my Bible

What? Your bible does not have Matthew 28:6 He is not here, for he is risen, as he said. Come, and see the place where the Lord was laid.

or Mark 16:6 Who saith to them: Be not affrighted; you seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified: he is risen, he is not here, behold the place where they laid him

or Luke 24:6 He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he was in Galilee

or John 20:16 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God

[Cronos]

Cronos: you don't believe in Christianity and don't believe Christ is the Son of God and don't believe that Christ came back to life

ZC: So? It's not in my Bible

Interesting, so you don't have John 1:1-4, 10,14

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
[4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men...

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And your bible doesn't have Paul using the Greek word Kyrios (κύριος) (God) to refer to Jesus?

And it doesn't have Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

[Cronos]

yet you reject

Ahem -- where exactly have I rejected it? Can you point out where I have said that -- you have made a false statement, a false inference. Furthermore, as I pointed out, Christian doctrine nowhere "rejects" it as you assert -- you are making this up.

[Cronos]

Again, you're getting a lot of exercises jumping to false conclusions. Genesis 2:15 in fact prophesises Christ, the Son of God coming to save us I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Christ, the SEED of a woman but not of a man, crushed the serpent Satan.

[Cronos]

Where exactly did I say ".since Genesis' only purpose to you is to teach "spiritual" or "theological" truths and contains no historical facts."

You made a false statement implying. I NEVER said that. Now note you said that in post 58 and you seem to infer a corroboration of your statement from my post 61? That's taking false inferences quite far.

you have any more false statements to make?

your false inferences are as silly as anyone believing the evil Protocols of the Elders.

[Cronos]

3771, 3761 -- whatever you wish to believe, that's your choice.

I asked you a simple question -- what about Sumerian cities that date back to 5400 BC (like Eridu)?

Why not answer that instead of making false assumptions or diverting the topic to assert that you believe that J*sus wasn't born of a virgin?

[Cronos]

do note -- Jesus was / is GOD -- that's clearly there in the Bible and that is Catholic belief. you need proof?

>For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he "called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus "[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be g.asped" (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was "in very nature God."

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).

This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

[BigEdLB]

If those beliefs give you comfort, then that is fine. I do not hold to those myself. The Pope has views on this subject very close to mine, thought I am, as I said not a Catholic, though consider myself Christian...

[wideawake]

Cronos, ZC is what is called a Noachide. He is a Gentile who accepts Orthodox Judaism as the true religion and only the Hebrew Scriptures (not the Greek Deuterocanon and New Testament) as revealed Scripture.

According to Orthodox Judaism, non-Jews are not required to become Jews in order to be righteous (being a Jew requires following all 613 mitzvot of the Torah) but are required to follow the 7 mitzvot that apply to all human beings (rejection of idolatry, blasphemy, murder, theft, sexual immorality and the consumption of living flesh and obligation to establish or participate in a just legal system).

[HerrBlucher]

I don’t. If you read the post I responded to, it was a listing of articles indicating the Pope did not believe in intelligent design. Since it is obvious he believes God created the universe, how is that not Intelligent Design? I received an explanation for this which seemed ok at face value, but Orthodox Christianity could not be worked into that worldview, Deism maybe.

No need to sigh, I was pursuing down the road bad reasoning and just as I thought, the road came to a dead end.

[Cronos]

oh, no worries -- we all make bad reasoning.

however, I was sighing because those articles themselves are quite incorrect.
Firstly, they don't say what the Pope actually SAID, but rather what some reporters think he said! The MSM loves to make up stories.
Secondly, well, if one believes that God was behind everything in creation, that is Intelligent Design, as I understand it -- correct?

[Cronos]

Whatever he believes, let him believe, that’s his choice. I object to his jumping to false conclusions about what I or any Catholic believes.

[HerrBlucher]

Absolutely!

[Cronos]

My apologies again -- the sigh was not so much directed at you as at MSM for consistently making up what they want us to think the pope said.

Their strategy of making up news is pretty old and lame

[Cronos]

Cronos, ZC is what is called a Noachide. He is a Gentile who accepts Orthodox Judaism as the true religion and only the Hebrew Scriptures (not the Greek Deuterocanon and New Testament) as revealed Scripture

no wonder -- the Jews I've met, even the very religious ones in Israel are never rude like this poster and they don't go about making false assumptions.

I think the poster in question, like for example other converts from Protestantism to Orthodoxy take their prejudices with them and use the cover of their new religion to attack.