Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

I see. How do you feel about the constant daily attacks upon the LDS faith on this board? Those ok?

Oh shut UP!

The LDS Organization® prints Hundreds of Thousands of THIS yearly!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

The LDS headquarters; in the heart of a modern US city, visited by THOUSANDS daily, has this placed in prominent view:

...which reiterates the charge that "they were all wrong; they teach for doctrines the commandments of men".

And they are kind to little kittens too!

Except...

Yes, a valid question. Please reply!

He did...

Yes, a valid question. Please reply!

Professor Robert Millet teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004 http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/ <-- Complete and uneditted

Timeline... Subject...

0:59 "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16 "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02 "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57 "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

The entire idea that Smith was an ‘apostle’ is insulting and heresey, especially considering the blasphemy that spewed out of his mouth.

...our joint, sincere belief in Jesus of Nazareth, born in Bethlehem and Savior of all mankind, the only path and gate through which any of us may return to our Father in Heaven.

You're a MORMON?

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

Dear Reader: what does it sound like to YOU?

LOL.

Stick with your lists

Just LOOK at the trouble you’ve caused!

Resty would call it CONTENTION!

I am not Mormon and I smoke and I drink yet I have no difficulty in working with them. We have a common vision for the country.

When I get a call or a resumé or Academic CV hits my desk we do not question faith, we only require that they be of faith. That qualification is usually reflected in the biography. Character shows and shines.

I'm a middleman. If we find an individual with leadership qualities and potential we do little to directly assist them. We point out possibilities and we open doors. We make introductions and write referrals and recommendations. We put our reputations on the line with every sponsorship. They have to do the work themselves.

We aren't looking for Mormons, they just dominate the able and ambitious pool of possibilities.

Well said Jeff.

Of course!

It avoids the ISSUE, while blathering on about tangential things.

Jesus IMHO wanted us to live with those 2 greatest commandments with one another..

But WAIT! There's MORE!

Acts 13:12
When the proconsul saw what had happened, he believed, for he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

Acts 17:18-19
18. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
19. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

Acts 18:11
So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

1 Corinthians 4:17
For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

1 Corinthians 11:2
2. I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.

Ephesians 4:14-15
14. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
15. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.

1 Timothy 1:3-4
3. As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

1 Timothy 2:7
And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

1 Timothy 4:6
If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

1 Timothy 4:11
Command and teach these things.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
3. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4. he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

2 Timothy 1:13
What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:15-17
15. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
16. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
17. Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17. so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Titus 1:11
They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

2 Peter 2:1-3
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

I have become upset with some of and one in particular of the anti to the point that was unbecoming of me.

Hey Colo which version of the Bible is the perfect one? Which translation? Which denomination?

I'll consider addressing that when you answer this question:

Which Book of Mormon do you & Lds missionaries & other Mormons ask people to pray about? (The 1830 version? Or the one that's been edited, cleaned up, and thousands of changes have been made to this supposedly "pure" translation from a supposed pure "seer" and "revelator").

If Smith was truly translating these from "gold plates" by the power of God or the Holy Spirit, well, since when does God need an editor to...
...Clean up mistakes about which king the text is talking about?
...Or why does "the Son of" need to be added in 1 Nephi a couple of times?
...Or why does "white and delightsome" need editing to become "pure and delightsome?"

[And if you contend most of those changes were simply grammar and the like, I will tell you that since you & a whole host of Mormons ask people to pray about the Book of Mormon, if you were asking people to pray about the 1830 version -- and people read it -- they would see where you've got this country bumpkin of a person (Smith) in numerous chunks bumping up vs. the majestic language & grammar of the KJV -- and they'd realize Smith doesn't measure up...but lo & behold, Smith had to come in & start editing the thing AFTER it had been published...and the LDS church can't leave the document alone without putting more changes into it!!!]

Well, said. How can people believe? Well, some grow up in it, and are brainwashed - literally told the same mantras over and over again - since childhood.

Some (like me are converts). Nominal Christians who don’t know their Bible very well and have never had a relationship with Jesus Christ and are looking for a nice conservative (RELIGION).

Mormonism has several ‘draws’ to the worldly. It claims to be the only ‘true’ church (One stop shopping), claims to have the answers for every question (claiming that other churches don’t ask or answer them which isn’t true), tugs at the heart strings (eternal marriage, families are forever).

For me, part of the draw was the ‘families are forever’. My parents divorced when I was four and I spent most of my time with my grandparents while my mother was out fighting communism in Eastern Europe. The idea that a family could stay together always was appealing.

Thirdly, the LDS missionaries (and often members) use deceptive methods in order to gain converts. They only tell potential converts PART of the story (like they leave out the BoM being translated with Smith’s face in a hat) under the guise of ‘milk before meat’. Once you are in, you start to get the ‘meat’ doctrines, then more once you go to the Temple for their secret initiatory rituals.

Finally, the LDS are masters at getting you to rely on your feelings rather than your mind for ‘truth’ and ‘knowledge’. The mormon ‘testimony’ is all about how they ‘know’ (through warm fuzzy feelings they claim are messages from God) that ‘the Church’ is ‘true’, that Smith was a prophet, etc.

The focus on feelings over thought as a measure of truth leaves many LDS flat out ignoring basic facts and the Bible.

I have pointed out that polygamy is Biblical.

Well, David slept with Bathsheba. (Does that make adultery "Biblical"???)

God told Hosea to marry a prostitute who continued to carry on that as a "cottage industry." (Does that make prostitution as your wife's "job" "Biblical," DU?)

God told Isaiah to walk around three years' naked (Is. 20:2-4). (Does that make exhibitionism "Biblical," DU?)

What a crock! You lack such basic discernment!

DU, while we all have blinders somewhere, what's truly pathetic is your export yours on matters in which your basic lack of understanding has been exposed like Isaiah's private parts!

Tell us, DU, where God told ANYBODY to "go and get an extra wife?" (or something similar)

Don't forget the biggest draw of all for the LDS.

“You to can become a god!”

Very powerful stuff that.

Of course the best you'll get is bupkis and a trip to a warmer climate...

For most purposes, the KJV is good. As I understand it the LDS group uses a different translation or an edited version of the KJV, is that correct?

As I understand it the LDS group uses a different translation or an edited version of the KJV, is that correct?

Well, the Book of Mormon contains big chunks of the KJV.

As with all christians, our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified and resurrected, and His atonement for our sins, which is a free gift if we will accept it...is the key and principle issue which over-rides all others.

- - - - - -
HOGWASH! How about telling the REST of the story.

That ‘grace’ is after all you can do, and mostly applies to the resurrection not salvation (exaltation to the LDS), and that ‘accepting’ means becoming LDS and participating in all the required works and ordinances. Also, you forgot to mention that the ‘atonement’ (the shedding of blood for sins) took place in the GARDEN not on the CROSS in LDS theology.

It sound’s so ‘Christian’ when you say it but the LDS use the same terms but with different meanings. Mormons ARE NOT CHRISTIAN and for most of the past 150+ years they haven’t wanted to be.

Now if you want to challenge me on this, I can and will provide quotes and sources for the above teachings I have clarified and the LDS view on ‘Christians’.

I am sick and tired of the LDS spitting doctrinally on my Lord and Savior and on Christians and spinning and REDEFINING CHRISTIAN TERMS THAT HAVE BEEN USED FOR 2000 years, then turning around and wanting to claim they are Christians too, when by their prophets own admission they worship a different Christ than we do and believe (and teach) that they (the LDS) are the only REAL Christian and the rest of us are apostates, then they pull this malarkey and claim they are Christians too. It is disingenuous at best and deceitful at worst.

believing in Smith and his stories isn’t a matter of faith, it is something that can be looked at objectively and weighed to see if it is likely true or not. God never tells us to leave our brains at the door, rather He wants us to USE our brains. And when looked at objectively, Mormonism doesn’t stand at all, warm fuzzy feelings included. A faith that cannot withstand intellectual and factual scrutiny (and Mormonism cannot) is a faith that is not worth having.

So, Jeff, do you KNOW you are going get to the Celestial Kingdom and godhood? do you KNOW that you have ‘done all you can do’? Do you KNOW that when you die you will return to God the Father for Eternity? Are you ‘perfect’ as your prophet Kimball taught that you need to be?

Because I do and I am perfect (made perfect through the blood of Christ) so do other Christians. Mormons can’t say the same if they are honest with themselves.

I think “you can become a God” is a powerful draw for men, probably the most powerful alongside the ‘priesthood’.

For women, i think the biggest draw is ‘families are forever’.

Either way they are headed for Hell.