Posted on 12/26/2010 8:41:08 AM PST by Colofornian
Islam: Truth or Myth? start page
* "Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca at Salt Lake... Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul 'revelations.' " (The Women of Mormonism, Frances E. Willard, 1882, Introduction, p. xvi)
* "The student of Mormonism will be struck with the similarity of experience and claims of Joseph Smith and Mohammed." (The Rocky Mountain Saints, T. B. H. Stenhouse 1873, p 2)
* "even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed" Gal 1:8
1. The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent "infidel" on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called "The Mountain Meadows" massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad's followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists.
2. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed."
3. Both were given visions.
4. Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them."
5. Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.
6. Both wrote a book inspired by God.
7. Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education.
8. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.
9. Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.
10. Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven.
11. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.
12. Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.
13. Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.
14. Both were polygamists who had many wives.
15. Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems.
16. Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith's divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses.
"As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)
17. Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!
18. Mormons, contrary to the Bible, "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.
19. Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.
20. Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it "new light". Muslims call it "Nasikh". Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but "new light" changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until "The Manifesto" against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith's death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.
I have literally been told at tithing audit (ok I'll use your eupehmism, tithing settlement), that NOT PAYING 10% of GROSS IS STEALING FROM GOD. "HE MADE US FREE, AFTERALL, IT'S ONLY THROUGH OUR SIN THAT TAXES ARE SO HIGH."
I will publicly take issue with your assertion that you didn't even spend 30 hours a week on Bishopric duties. By the time you honestly add up the LDS required Monday night family home evening lesson and preparation time, tuesday night young women's supervision and do not contact list visits, wednesday night young men's supervision and regular home teaching visits, thursday night nursery supervision and Relief society function supervision and temple recommend interviews, friday night bishopric meeting and designated missionary dinner night and couples geneology library work night, saturday stake Bishopric training / young women's camp / scout camp supervision / primary activity, and a 12-15 hour marathon on Sunday starting with ward bishopric meeting, ward council meeting, high priest council meeting, sacrament meeting, two hours of assigned sunday school supervision, counting / accounting / depositing of tithes / fast offerings / missionary fund offerings / SEPARATE humanitarian fund offerings, followed by nearly endless calls from members in some kind of need, liek the ones who request food from the bishop's storehouse which require a "worthiness" interview in which they are told no if they haven't paid a FULL TITHING ON THIER GROSS INCOME. now let's not forget the Temple work, Baptisms for the dead, annointings and endowments for the dead, and now the new edict to organize and supervise a four hour cleaning session on the building by 20 people on saturday afternoon because the fortune 50 sized corporation of the president doesn't want to pay janitors, ETC, ETC, ETC.
Sir, I question your ability to add, honesty, or both. Of course I know there must be slackers in the LDS Bishoprics, but I can tell you of a certainty that 30-50 hours a week on top of full time work, college (in my case), and family is to be expected.
If it wasn't based on fraud it would be one thing, but some of us took that temple recommend interview question about fulfilling our "callings" seriously.
Maybe God has relaxed those requirements in the ~4 years I have been out, when Harry Reid calls Ezra Taft benson an extremist in front of the BYU faculty and staff then later brags about holding a temple recommend I do wonder...
My people do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah either. Do you hate us too?
So they don't believe in Jesus as Messiah. Isn't that their problem from your point of view. Why is it your problem?
ML/NJ
Thanks for your kind remarks about Mormons. Off the top of my head, I can think of one situation in the Book of Mormon in which the Lord commanded the prophet Nephi to slay a man. See 1 Nephi 4:7-18. Nephi did so by cutting off the man's head with his own sword.
In contrast, the Book of Mormon also gives an account of people who refused to take up arms, instead allowing themselves to be killed for their faith (See Alma 24.)
However, both of those are extreme and unusual cases. More generally, the Book of Mormon supports the right of self-defense. Indeed, it speaks of self-defense as a duty:
45 Nevertheless, the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.46 And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.
47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion. (Alma 43:45-47)
I take these words to heart. I believe in turning the other cheek, in not responding in kind to insults. However, I am no pacifist. I believe every person has the right to defend himself and his family and friends against those who would harm them.
My people do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah either. Do you hate us too?
- - - - -
Of course I don’t hate them (don’t hate Mormons either), but I will not let them go willingly to Hell either. I love them enough to tell them the truth. Not only is Yeshua THE Messiah, He is YOUR Messiah.
The problem is that Jews don’t claim to be Christians, Mormons do. As a Christian, it is my duty to defend my faith. If Mormons would just admit they aren’t really Christians, and quit trying to claim they are, we would back off, but as long as they slander my Lord and My God I am in this fight till the end.
I used to BE Mormon, I know their teaching and I know when they are lying to outsiders and why. That is what I am fighting. I don’t hate them, I love them enough to try to rescue them.
Why do you care?
Yes, and I pay one-tenth (10%) of my net income. That is what the Lord has given me. (The rest He allows the government to take.)
Now, if someone wants to give 10% of his gross income, that is his business. The bishop is not supposed to question how any member calculates his or her tithing.
I have literally been told at tithing audit (ok I'll use your eupehmism, tithing settlement) . . .
The proper terminology is "tithing settlement," not "tithing audit." (Have you been away from the LDS Church so long that you have forgotten?)
The difference between a settlement and an audit is no mere euphemism. Audits are mandatory. An tithing audit would be a careful, methodical examination of one's financial records to verify compliance.
Tithing settlement is entirely voluntary. If a member chooses to participate, he is not asked to show the bishop anything. The member declares whether he considers himself a full tithe payer; the bishop is not to question such a declaration.
I will publicly take issue with your assertion that you didn't even spend 30 hours a week on Bishopric duties.
A bishop who personally does all of the things you listed is doing it wrong. Perhaps you have forgotten, but the bishop is supposed to call others to do much of the work.
Sir, I question your ability to add, honesty, or both. Of course I know there must be slackers in the LDS Bishoprics, but I can tell you of a certainty that 30-50 hours a week on top of full time work, college (in my case), and family is to be expected.
I am not deficient in mathematics, and I try to tell the truth; so perhaps I was one of the slackers. Or perhaps you are not as knowledgeable as you claim about the workings of the LDS church.
Not every “Baptist” church is truly Baptist creed.
I have been to some that I couldnt even recognize, even though the sign out front said Baptist.
Thats why there are so many of them. Every time a congregation has some disagreement, half them go And form a new church with the “right” doctrine. Its happened
PD is the MORMON who wants us ALL to do 'research'.
MORMON church buildings say 'The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints' but they STILL do not PRACTICE what D&C 132 preaches!
Not to my knowledge.
Now if you start posting PRO-Romney stuff; your FR half-life will be severely shortened!
I guess 'vapor between the ears' is acceptable.
I call hogwash, when I was LDS it was 10% of GROSS not net income and tithing settlements were not optional, well not if you wanted a temple recommend. And this was several wards and stakes, not just one bishop.
Sounds like you don’t follow your own religion very well, Logo.
ml/nj could use some research, having proven he/she doesn’t know more than a sprinkle about Momronism or the hisotry of that religion. Accusing folks of spewing hatred, while showing gross ignorance regarding this ‘fleeing persecution in fear for their lives’ shows the poster hasn’t a clue regarding Emma’s remaining in the East and holding together a sect of Mormonism, even holding the Joseph Smith translation of the King James Bible! With the ignorant it is best to not argue.
For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly. (Quoted by Vicor L. Brown, Ensign, April 1974)
So far as I know, this is still the official word on tithing.
Note that no one, not even a bishop, is authorized to go beyond what the First Presidency has written. How members calculate their tithing is between them and the Lord; the bishop has no say in the matter.
As for the temple recommend interview, the question is whether one is a full tithe payer, not whether one attended tithing settlement. And every member is entitled to decide what it means to be a full tithe payer.
(You may be right that I do not follow my religion very well. Fortunately, God is both just and merciful; and by His grace I may be perfect in Christ. )
NEVER!!!!........;^)
We don’t hate you. We envy you. /s LOL
God has made you his chosen people and seems kinda unlucky to attack those who are own traditions are built on. Hence, probably most of us support Israel unequivocally.
At least I do.
Oh, one more thing.
Without Jews I wouldn’t enjoy koogle, Potato Pancakes, Katz’s or Carnegie Deli.
My favorite are potato pancakes. Yum!
K, well I hope you told them to pound .....
They are frauds and good for you, walking away from them.
And yet in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE; he did!
We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord...
I didn’t tell them anything.
I just didn’t come back....ever.
I had been brought up a strict Southern Baptist, and still have that as my basis of faith, but as to “churches” I have none.
I have a singular, personal relationship with God, and I don’t need a “church” or preacher to improve upon that.
I have seen churches that have come apart over petty rivalries, gossiping, backstabbing and jealousy. I have seen a big Baptist church ask someone to leave because of the clothing a person wore, which in my mind and heart was directly at conflict with a Christian attitude and scripture.
It seems the bigger the “church” the smaller the Christian. All it takes is two............
.....In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the “strife among the different denominations,” and this “cry and tumult” led him to ask God “which of all the sects were right — and which I should join.” He was told that he must “join none of them, for they were all wrong...
Well, what Smith was told—by whoever—was correct, but NOT for the reason that Smith came to believe!
The Church established by our Lord and His Apostles—the holy Orthodox Church—was not present in upstate New York (”the burnt-over district”) where Smith was living. Thus all the sects that Smith knew were wrong.
Smith should have made inquiries and sought out the Church, NOT started a new religion. If he had succeeded in bringing Orthodoxy to America, he might have become a great saint.
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