In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[kosta50]

Perhaps to be "Roman-ically correct," one should conclude that the council cannot err because it is infallible since it was certified by the pope

No, that's not true at all. The Church as a whole cannot fail because it is believed the HS protects her and guides her. And an ecumenical council is a General council of the whole Church.

[kosta50]

Yes, Kosta, this is predictable from the Orthodox view of "victim"

No, HD, it's because in Greek (Hebrew and Slavonic) the word for victim and sacrifice is one and the same word.

Can you accept that in Greek, the mother tongue of the Bible, this is how it is understood?

However, many of those versions that I quoted are derived from international scholars painstakingly researching the text for the correct meaning

Because in English they are separate words. This so-called scholarship has been revising the Greek text over and over. Are they ever going to get to the "ultimate" version? You'd think by now they'd have figured it out, yet they keep coming up with newer and better translations...at infinitium it seems. To me that tells me they don'[t know how to translate it or else they wouldn't be make new translations every so often.

I'm perfectly satisfied with the versions.

Based on what standard? Greek or English?

The Orthodox just published their version of the scriptures (after 2000 years-better late than never).

That's like saying "Purpse-driven" Warren published a book. Some North American Orthodox prelates fell for this scam, as I already said.

If I can find an on line version I'd be happy to look for the word "victim".

In what language? English or Greek? The Greek version is full of the word "victim."

[mas cerveza por favor]

What is your Greek source? Is it one of those "redacted" versions made to conform with the Masoretic Text? NKJV is very close to the Latin Vulgate. St. Jerome must have use a different Greek source. Here is the Latin source tranlated by Google:

"For a child is born to us a son is given to us and has the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace"

[mas cerveza por favor]

The Church as a whole cannot fail because it is believed the HS protects her and guides her. And an ecumenical council is a General council of the whole Church.

You are saying that every part of every ecumenical council is protected by infallibility? Where is that defined?

[count-your-change]

The New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS) agrees more with the NKJV text than the unsourced translation in your reply:

“. 6For
unto us a Child was born, and unto us a Son was given, Whose sovereignty
was upon His shoulder: and His name is called Messenger of Great Counsel,
Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Potentate, Prince of Peace, Father of the
Age to Come; for I will bring peace upon the princes, peace and health unto
him.” Isa. 9:6 New English Translation of the Septuagint

From their website:

“About NETS

NETS is a new translation of the Greek Jewish Scriptures, entitled A New English Translation of the Septuagint and the Other Greek Translations Traditionally Included Under that Title (and abbreviated as NETS). This project is being carried out under the ægis of The International Organization for Septuagint and Cognate Studies (IOSCS). The translators are specialists in Septuagint studies. Their translations follow rigorous procedures established by the editors. Oxford University Press publishes the translation. An accompanying commentary series is also planned.”

“fraudulent”? Not so fast there!

[kosta50]

What is your Greek source?

The oldest versions of complete LXX (i.e. C. Sinaiticus, Vaticans, Alexandrinus). This is the version used by the Greek Orthodox Church to this day, and that was the basis for Textus Receptus.

[kosta50]

My source is the Septuagint that is used, and has been used, since the 4th century (we have no older versions of the LXX for isaih as far as I know). The only opre-Christian LXX books are seven, five of Torah and two minor prophest.

If you want various sources, here is one, or this one, or this one, or this one, etc. Take your pick.

translations follow rigorous procedures established by the editors

Well, their translation does not correspond to the Greek text I have refrenced above, that is the versions that have been used for the last 1,600 years. I gave you a translation, word for word, along with the NKJV versions (which corresponds to the Masoretic Text, aka the Hebrew Bible).

I would rather like to know which version of Greek LXX are your sources using. Appealing to their rigorous methods is meaningless unless we have a legitimate source.

[kosta50]

The proclamations of the Ecumenical Councils are believed inspired by the Holy Spirit and infallible. The ecumenical councils form part of the infallible Sacred (or Holy) Tradition of the Church. The Eastern Church defines Holy Tradition differently form the Western Catholic Church.

You can read about it, as well as about the Eastern take on the councils and scriptures here

[kosta50]

NKJV is very close to the Latin Vulgate. St. Jerome must have use a different Greek source. Here is the Latin source tranlated by Google

First of all how do you know this is Jerome's version? The new Vulgate (in Latin) is not the Jerome's original.

Besides, I don't know what version of Isaiah 9 Jerome use for his translation, considering that he did not write the OT based on the LXX but on the Masoretic Text (MT), and most Jewish versions of the English Hebrew Bible quote Isaiah 9:5 as

For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom

Whatever that name is, the NKJV is not following the LXX or the MT.

[HarleyD]

Why would you want to translate Isahiah 9:6 from Greek when you can translate it from Hebrew? The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. In the Hebrew it is as the NKJV says. Please see below:

כִּי־יֶלֶד יֻלַּד־לָנוּ בֵּן נִתַּן־לָנוּ וַתְּהִי הַמִּשְׂרָה עַל־שִׁכְמֹו וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמֹו פֶּלֶא יֹועֵץ אֵל גִּבֹּור אֲבִיעַד שַׂר־שָׁלֹֽום׃

The "authorized" version of the Orthodox Bible is correct. Note: גּבּר גּבּור translates into Mighty God. I guess the Greek is not all that it's cracked up to be when translating things from Hebrew to Greek to English. Well the Orthodox Church must have understood that. I guess that's what you get for being well funded even though all they had to do was take our NKJV of the bible and slap a new cover on it. (But it's a lovely cover.)

You shouldn't really complain about your own church. Your bishops decided this was the right course. ;O)

BTW-It is interesting the Orthodox decided to use the Protestant's version of scripture rather than the Catholic's DBR version.

[HarleyD]

No, HD, it's because in Greek (Hebrew and Slavonic) the word for victim and sacrifice is one and the same word. Can you accept that in Greek, the mother tongue of the Bible, this is how it is understood?

According to the Orthodox Study Bible you are incorrect. You'll have to look up your reference. After all, the Orthodox when to great time and expense to bring you this translation.

[count-your-change]

The Septuagint wasn’t produced in English. What is the source of the English translation? And I would rather like to know which version that translation was made from since on it’s basis you call “fraud”.

[presently no screen name]

It takes time and patience to break through the fog. Most people don’t have the time.

When one is a seeker of Truth, time is never an obstacle. Breaking through the fog one heresy at a time has every lasting rewards. Now where heresy was, TRUTH resides. I'm blessed!

Christianity isn't for everyone - not everyone are seekers of Truth. According to Scripture, only a few find it.

[presently no screen name]

So, perhaps your intent to publicly castigate Kosta could end up being a millstone around your neck?

Don't use Scripture to attack/condemn one of God's own to satisfy a agnostic poster when according to Scripture he is INCAPABLE of understanding God's Word!

1 Corinthians 2:14
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

They cannot understand the Bible, or the way in which God works. For the Bible is not like any other book where you can read it and give a book review at the end. The Bible is full of ‘spiritual truths’ and we need the indwelling Holy Spirit to speak to us and ‘reveal’ the hidden truths in it.

Don't use God's Word unless you show reverence to it. If you disagree with don't use it. It's not a plaything to mock and correct at your leisure. Satan hates The Word and mocked it, also. Jesus is THE WORD. You mock Jesus when you mock His Word and you mock the Holy Spirit because His Word is Holy Spirit inspired. You are on dangerous ground.

[stfassisi]

Your post is babble and accusations written in a condescending nature.

It amazes me that you did not figure out when I spoke of Love crushing sin that God is Love and does not change from Love or God would be changed

“For thou lovest all things that are, and hatest none of the things which thou hast made: for thou didst not appoint, or make any thing hating it.”- Wisdom 11:25

“For I am the Lord, and I change not”-Malachi 3:6

I’m really not interested in going round and round with this with you.

[stfassisi]

“”according to Scripture he is INCAPABLE of understanding God’s Word!””

Do you know Kosta’s heart and has God given you some special knowledge of him?

For one,an agnostic can be someone who has not rejected Christ but is still searching. Secondly, Kosta is certainly one of the best Christian historians here on FR and he uses sound Orthodox teaching which understands the “Word of God” for over 2000 years .He is also fluent in Greek.

So, perhaps you can explain why it is ok to condemn someone who is still searching for answers with an honest and sincere heart?

Personally ,I think you and others don’t want Kosta around because his knowledge of historical Christianity challenges your own protestant faith

PNS-””You mock Jesus when you mock His Word and you mock the Holy Spirit because His Word is Holy Spirit inspired. You are on dangerous ground.””

Sadly, it is you who mocks Jesus by not showing love and condemning someone still searching

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven.”Luke 6: 36-37

I will pray for you!

[bkaycee]

Jesus Accused by His Family

Mark 3:20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his FAMILY heard about this, THEY WENT TO TAKE CHARGE OF HIM, for they said, “He is out of his mind.” .....

31 Then Jesus’ MOTHER and brothers ARRIVED. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your MOTHER and brothers are outside looking for you.”

Would MARY's accusing Jesus of insanity be a sin?

[metmom]

1 Corinthians 2:14 "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

Do you not understand the significance of this verse?

If a person claims to not know God, or know about Him, then he cannot have the Spirit of God in him. If one does not have the Spirit of God in himself, he CANNOT know the things of God.

Those who have the Spirit of God know it and show it.

[metmom]

Good catch and good question.

[stfassisi]

If a person claims to not know God, or know about Him, then he cannot have the Spirit of God in him

What is it that leads people like this that eventially accept Christ as God if they can't have the Spirit of God in them?

Your analysis leaves everyone still searching with doubts automatically condemned