Posted on 10/04/2010 12:57:36 PM PDT by Amerisrael
Art Vanick, co-author of The Spalding Enigma, Who Really Wrote The Book of Mormon, makes an appearance on Out of Mormonism to address the Glenn Beck Restoring Honor Rally.
Andy, Art, and Roger discuss the ramifications of the rally from a biblical Christian perspective.
Do Christians understand that Mormonism is different than biblical Christianity?
[ These are two separate "Out of Mormonism" radio podcasts from Mesa, Arizona. Very interesting.]
While Mormonism may not pose the violent / stealth and political threat that Islam does, from a spiritual standpoint, it is just as dangerous.
(Excerpt) Read more at outofmormonism.libsyn.com ...
Each of these three witnesses throughout their lives stood fast in their testimony of seeing the plates, seeing the angel and hearing the voice of God commanding them to bear testimony of what they saw.
Some more information about these witnesses and their testimonies:
http://bookofmormonfacts.com/book-of-mormon/mouth-two-three-witnesses/
And truly, if someone has a problem with you, they likewise have a problem with me.
Likewise, if someone has a problem with you, they have a problem with me.
Thank you for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!
Other than your feelings, what proof do you have
that your feelings come from the Holy Ghost and
not a demon (most likely source)?
How do you KNOW?
Hi Ampu,
I’m not able to communicate to you what has been communicated to me, so I can’t give you the proof you are asking for — only God can do that.
It appears your mind is made up for now, but if the time comes that you have a change of heart regarding the Book of Mormon, I would encourage you to follow the counsel of Moroni:
Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:3-5
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things
ok now that MHG wants to turn this into an official Anti-Mormon Thread... game on.
“Didn’t you read in the New Testament that among the body of believers, God’s Spirit gives gifts to do these very tasks, teaching, revealing, prophesy on rare occasions? Didn’t you read the instances of these traits/gifts of the Spirit illustrated in the New Testament? Jesus is our High Priest and our eternal Prophet, killer. Read the Acts of the Apostles and especially the conversion of Saul again.”
Since you obviously don’t want to include Scriptural reference and can only regurgitate nonsense that you have been told, we will start here. This cis answered by Paul in Ephesians 4:5;11-14. Are we at a unity of faith? Are Anti-Mormons still lying in wait to deceive? We’ll see how many of these questions an avid Anti-Mormon will answer honestly.
“You depart from logic with an opinion not substantiated by anything in evidence, and in fact the Bible says God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth. You’re not hitting very straight, killer”
Wow I don’t know what bible you read but in the KJV John 5:19 it is plain to see that Jesus Christ was following his Fathers example in ALL things. What is the Biblical reference that explains when Jesus Christ gives up His physical body? still waiting for any in the Anti-Crowd to cough this one up. Logic is logic and it is you who is hitting like a cross-eyed, club-footed golfer. MHG, try to be honest this time.
“Given the LDS stance against homosexual marriage, one would think a good Mormon would be good enough not to make such a nasty, bordering on blasphemy remark, but then we do have a history of your snarking at FR to refer to so we see you are staying within character. And it might occur to readers that you just affirmed your belief that God The Father Almighty had a wife or wives … again, not a Christian concept and antithetical to Judaeo-Chrsitian belief as taught in the Bible.”
Ohh poor baby, did I hit a nerve by making fun of your Anti-Mormon Essay? Seriously though, lighten up and take it easy. If Ephesians 4:13 is at all accurate by what we will need today, based on Paul, then a Latter-day Prophet will be receiving Latter-Day Revelation that restores those “plain and precious” truths. The key word there is RESTORES!
“You ask a question oblique to the passage you appear to disagree with. Try to stay on message if you think you’re refuting the facts offered in the essay. And again, by avoiding the actual issue in the essay, you give agreement to the premise it exposed, namely that Mormons believe God has wives and children and progressed to godhood from some lesser state of existence. Since the god of mormonism would have had a god while he was in mortal existence ‘progressing’ you’ve affirmed that Momronism is polytheistic since your MORMON DOCTRINE of eternal progression cannot happen without polytheism at its roots.”
Mormons worship God The Father. Mormons worship Jesus Christ, and that Godhead they comprise with the Holy Ghost. We do not worship any other gods that are in existence. YOu try to obfusicate the argument by claiming only one definition of polytheism in an attempt to discredit Mormon Doctrine in more than one god. Dictionary.com has it broken in two parts as “the worship of or belief in more than one god.” We believe in more than one God too. Jesus Christ is a God and God the Father is a God so, yes we are polytheistic... where inn the Bible does Jesus give up his body again? Still haven’t heard back MHG.
“Actually, you help readers see the true heart of Mormonism when you remove the veneer and speak frankly. Thanks for that. I do value honesty, even if your perspective is misguided and aimed at maligning the beliefs natural to Christianity and antithetical to Mormonism.”
I was giving an example but since you obviously need help in understanding the example let me type s l o w l y... or can we continue at regular pace? Speaking of snarky, this whole response wreaks of it. It was a valiant attempt at a spin as well. I assumed (won’t do that again) you would be learned enough to see an example especially when I post e.g. (example given) before it.... but then again anti’s are slow on the upswing, and will twist and spin anything to try to gain advantage. I will type s l o w e r i n t h e f u t u r e.
“I must again thank you for being more honest than all the previous Mormonism apologists I’ve run across at FR. Of course you realize Christians do not believe you or they will ever progress to godhood, but you appear to be affirming this heresy.”
Your truly welcome MHG! I also realize that christians especially the Anti-Mormon types don’t even take Christ at his word... even when they are printed in RED. You can believe what you want to. Paul is the one who teaches it (but then again what would he know) and it is the Anti-Crowd that has yet to answer what a Joint-heir with Christ means. Mormons know what it means and we know exactly what Paul meant by it, MHG.
I won’t post your entire quote but I see you aren’t offering any original understanding you have but another essay by other Anti-Mormon “scholars. In that tirade you mention that gods is is referred to in a passage not given by you that judges/magistrates are called gods not Gods... so anytime gods is mentioned we can substitute magistrate/judges? And you blame me for obfusicating the argument. Anyway, I loved your attack as follows:
“if you cannot create confusion and then exploit it to offer Mormonism heretical teaching of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, you have nothing upon which to hook the unsuspecting. You yourself have been so hook and reeled in. And look at yourself, trying to denigrate the Bible on the one hand then trying to use out of context passages to prove Mormonism peculiar doctrines fed to you by those perpetuating the false doctrines, otherwise known as heresies.” —— if anything Mormonism undoes the confusion created by “christians” through Latter-day prophets and Revelation that has been woven through centuries lovingly named The Dark Ages and the Protestant Reformation. I will not post my conversion as it would be against Jesus Christ’s teaching on pearls and swine. I denigrate only your interpretations of the Bible through the use of logic and reason which is more than I can say about your denigration of my beliefs using hatred and vitriol (whose example are you following?). If logic bothers you so much then why do you post at all?
” I dare say you are correct that McKeever doesn’t fully understand mormon ‘scriptures’; even smart Mormon apologists have trouble aligning the contradictory offerings (like polygamy abhorrent to God in the BofM, but Joe Smith instituted it as a command from God to allay the troubles Smith’s sexual predation was causing, then a later leader commnaded it be discontinued yet your own D&C 132 has it still a commandment, expecting polygamy in Momron heaven).”
Nice straw man cloaked attack filled with vitriol and hatred, but I guess it is only a hatred of Mormonism so it is ok, right? After all that is what Jesus taught, right? I am not near as smart or as inspired of God (as in Elohim, God The Father) as was The Prophet Joseph Smith and I understand that there is only a contradiction in your personal interpretation of the Bible,MHG, and your ability to accept logic as this entire thread has been evidence of such a deficit.
I will finish keeping the faith with this finality. Many have tried (and failed) to expose the “true nature” of Mormonism or the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. How many Institutes, web pages, and resources are there all with the same claim about “the pitfalls” of Mormonism? These are all rhetorical questions of course and the answer is obvious. Mormons know we are Christians (we don’t need your stamp of approval as we already have His) because we believe in Jesus Christ who was born of the Virgin Mary, Who suffered in Gethsemane, Who was crucified for the sins of the world, who will allow all who believe on his name enter through the gates of Heaven. I am positive this is the same Jesus you believe in. The fact that Mormons make up a small percentage of Christendom only exemplifies what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 7:13-14. It’s His Gospel and His example that Mormons follow.
-Peace be unto you, too!
Thanks for your pings.
I am glad Jesus Christ is my judge and not you. I would expect nothing more from someone so aligned.
You will take the following as a compliment, but I don't intend it that way, but it's not an insult either: are you aware of how similar your posts are to those of delph and stourme and other snarky mormons who play at mormonism apologists at FR? And do you really believe polytheism is Christian belief? And do you really eblieve God was once a man who through earning exaltation became the god Mormons worship? Do you really?
But Christ does correct us by using others to steer the right direction when going off course...it would appear that is where you are at this time. and he does call us to “be our brothers keeper”.....I think that is the true intentions of those posting to you.
I am always sure of those who I align myself with...they have stood the tests.
Why thank you Grey fox...I think I missed that post...didn’t realize it was questioned that Mormons are snuggling up with the Islamists. Your links just enlarged my already understanding of their involvement politically...as that is the reason they are doing the things. But they are also meeting with Islamist leadership overseas. I’ll have to find that...but even FR has posted threads about this. Thanks again.
“with other sane American females out there”
No Mormon - no person - especially me - is perfect. We all fall short of the glory of God.
The anti Mormon garbage on this site is sickening.
I apologize for getting upset around here and blowing my top. I should not have done that. Sorry.
To support my statement “Mormon Leadership is bellying up with Islam”.....just a few links below.....
President Packer said, “Church members and Muslims share similar high standards of decency, temperance and morality. … As societal morality and behavior decline in an increasingly permissive world, the church and many within Islam increasingly share natural affinities.”
“https://secure.deseretnews.com/article/705355139/Indonesias-
Southern California Muslim leaders traveled to Salt Lake City as part of a delegation to visit Mormon leaders. The Mormon Church opened its doors to Muslims for the purpose of educating one another about their histories and traditions........ Muslim leaders from Salt Lake City also met with the Southern California delegation. A trip to BYU, about 40 minutes south of Salt Lake City, included a discussion with ....”college students studying Islam.”
http://www.mpac.org/programs/interfaith/al-marayati-visits-mormon-church-headquarters.php
This idea of prophecy and a line of prophets would be familiar to both Muslims and Mormons. The fact that Joseph Smith and Muhammad both were religious as well as political leaders is another similarity. Muslims and Mormons also share a strict moral certitude about right and wrong and ban substances like alcohol. This morality led one Salt Lake imam we interviewed to declare Utah the “best place in the United States for Muslims. It’s the best kept secret.
”http://journeyintoamerica.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/mormons-and-muslims/
When the sun went down around 7:30, the... ‘Mormon men followed the Muslim men’.. into the front of the mosque’s carpeted prayer room to observe evening prayers.......
Mormon women, all of whom donned head scarves before entering the prayer room, sat behind the Muslim women... in the same room. The women were separated from the men by a sheer cloth which divided the room, a common practice meant to keep away distractions while prayers are being recited, a mosque member said.........”As a Latter-day Saint we’re very devoted, and it’s very obvious the Muslims have the same type of lifestyle and devotion,” said David Lewis of Ladera Ranch.
“In their way, with their rituals and their prayers, they have the devotion that we also have,” Lewis said. “That faith, or that belief, that takes you to action, that creates a desire to live a certain lifestyle...I think that’s what’s neat about being here and witnessing this.
“http://www.truthandgrace.com/mormonislam.htm
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