Art Vanick on Glenn Beck and Mormonism

Out of Mormonism ^

[Amerisrael]

Art Vanick, co-author of The Spalding Enigma, Who Really Wrote The Book of Mormon, makes an appearance on Out of Mormonism to address the Glenn Beck Restoring Honor Rally.

Andy, Art, and Roger discuss the ramifications of the rally from a biblical Christian perspective.

Do Christians understand that Mormonism is different than biblical Christianity?

[ These are two separate "Out of Mormonism" radio podcasts from Mesa, Arizona. Very interesting.]

While Mormonism may not pose the violent / stealth and political threat that Islam does, from a spiritual standpoint, it is just as dangerous.

[killermedic]

“Finally, a momronism apologist honest enought to take responsibility for the peculiar beliefs of momronism. A careful read of this poster’s response will evidnece that Mormons do believe in eternal progression, that the god they worship as father to Jesus was once a mortal and ‘progressed’ to godhood.”

MHG.. your arrogance and egotism involved here make Obama look like a humble farm boy. You asked (well not by producing your own work but a regurgitated piece of effluence) the question and I answered it with scriptural teachings to include quotes fromthe Savior Himself... But then again it doesn’t surprise me that you miss the logic as we ll as the teachings in the NT. I will also post a rebuttal to your nonsense posted after trying to get all the rest of the Anti-Crowd involved.
“I will address directly, point by twisted point, if killer wants me to, or if readers would like the exercise in detail. But reading the response, one gets the feeling that several apologists collaborate to offer this response, due to the disjunct nature of the points misaligned.”

You make assumptions that I didn’t answer of myself.... typing is different than a verbal communique but now worries, my post was all original unlike your regurgitated “think this way” Anti-Mormon refuse. Try doing your own study before posting what others have done.

“The poster affrims his belief in this polytheistic system of gods, BUT, the poster then turns and tries to obfuscate what he has just affirmed he believes on the nature of God (or should that be ‘god’?). This ability to hold two opposite beliefs is not unusual in a mormonism apologist, but it is revealing when exposed.”
You expose nothing but your own arrogance and unbelief in Biblical Doctrine. The only obfusication is by your own error in understanding the same said Biblical Doctrines. Don’t get all emotional because you got an answer to your drivel of a posting.

“Folks, this eternal progression (or should we better characterize it as eternal regression since the implications are that retrograde godhood preceeded the current god and who knows what it will be in the future gods of mormonism ‘exaltation?) is not Christianity.”

I guess if you can’t take Paul of The Lord Jesus Christ at their word, then the problem lies with you and your god. Why do you claim to be Christian when you don’t take Jesus at His word?

[Elsie]

-If we are going to use logic then game on... all logic is going to prove is the need for Latter-day Prophets and Revelation.

Did you ACTUALLY place LOGIC and LDS in the same sentence?

Can WE use 'logic' to analyze MORMONism; too?

[betty boop]

I very much doubt the veracity of the poster having "read back through some of your".....if she had, she would never have made the ignorant remark that she did.

Thank you, greyfoxx39.

Indeed, "ignorance" may be the proper word for it.

But "ignorance" is NOT equal to stupid.

I'm pretty sure our dear Mormon lady is not "stupid."

She just strikes me as being just a tad too much emotional.

FWIW.

Thank you so much for writing, greyfoxx39!

[Elsie]

I love the straightforward way you dodge the issue!

Yes; I tend to cut to the chase; yes - YOU are the one dodging the 'question' by not answering and then asking another.

Why do you think YOUR request for an answer to YOUR question should be honored, when YOU have not extended the same courtesy to me?

[Elsie]

Did you shake his hand?

[Elsie]

So, Satan is two personages now with bodies of flesh and bone?

It was JS who gave the test of shaking the spirits hand.

HE seemed to have NO problem with other SPIRITS taking on human form!

(Too bad he did NOT do 'the test' when those two ANGELS of LIGHT showed up to deceive him.)

[Elsie]

Mormons aren’t human eh? I’ll try not to take this as another personal attack /eyeroll

And I will not comment on your lame attempt to build a better strawman.

[Elsie]

I think you could be just a teency bit more obnoxious.

 

Ok!

 

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THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

 

  1 And it shall come to pass, that if the ^aGentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in ^bpower, in very deed, unto the ^ctaking away of their ^dstumbling blocks—

  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be ^anumbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a ^bblessed people upon the ^cpromised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.

  3 And that great ^apit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that ^bhell which hath no end.

  4 For behold, this is according to the ^acaptivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.

  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be ^awell with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso ^brepenteth not must perish.

  6 Therefore, ^awo be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.

  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a ^amarvelous work among the children of men; a ^bwork which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto ^cpeace and ^dlife eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the ^ecaptivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.

  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the ^acovenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.

  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the ^adevil.

  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save ^atwo churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the ^bother is the church of the ^cdevil; wherefore, ^dwhoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ^ewhore of all the earth.

  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many ^awaters; and she had dominion over ^ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were ^afew, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ^ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to ^afight against the Lamb of God.

  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were ^aarmed with ^brighteousness and with the ^cpower of God in great glory.

  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was ^apoured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the ^bnations and kindreds of the earth.

  16 And as there began to be ^awars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

  17 And when the ^aday cometh that the ^bwrath of God is poured out upon 1 nephi 14 of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the ^cwork of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his ^dcovenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!

  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.

  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold ^aone of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

  21 Behold, he shall ^asee and ^bwrite the ^cremainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.

  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.

  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the ^abook which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most ^bprecious and easy to the understanding of all men.

  24 And behold, the things which this ^aapostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.

  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should ^awrite them.

  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have ^awritten them; and they are ^bsealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.

  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was ^aJohn, according to the word of the angel.

  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my ^afather saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was ^acarried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are ^btrue. And thus it is. Amen.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[betty boop]

...you have to remember (though it doesn’t excuse her) that her entire salvation is wrapped up in the requirement for her to be perfectly sinless at all times, meet all the obligations incurred through ordinances, laws, tithing, callings, etc necessary to continue to prove her ‘worthiness’ before her husband, bishop and her ‘god’.

NOBODY is: "perfectly sinless at all times, meet[ing] all the obligations incurred through ordinances, laws, tithing, callings, etc necessary to continue to prove her ‘worthiness’ before her husband, bishop and her ‘god’.

Sounds closer to ISLAM than to Christianity to my ear. The last statement above is the perfect description of the requisite submission of woman so demanded for the perfection of true faith in God (Allah).

That don't wash with me. Nor — I daresay — with other sane American females out there....

[Did you know that polygamy is legal in the Islamic faith?]

[Elsie]

...the credibility of Smith's account rests on the testimony of these eleven witnesses.

[caww]

You have lost the debate at this juncture...no rebuttal to the statements which were more than adequately presented. If you expect to be taken seriously by those looking at both sides of the issues than better addressing the statements rather than go on the defensive as you now have done... Why not rather continue the debate and let those who are observing decide... as you so adequately have stated they should do so? Are is this it...and if it is the winner would naturally go to your opposition.

[Elsie]

FR is dragging along so badly today,

Tell me about it!

I thought it was on MY end!

[Elsie]

(well not by producing your own work but a regurgitated piece of effluence)

[TXnMA]

"Christian" = "Christ-like"

Matthew 7:16: " Ye shall know them by their fruits."

"I have read back through some of your pompous holier-than-thou posts. I think you are worse than the in-your-face anti Mormons on the site because you are so sickeningly disgustingly sweet and full of yourself."

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Mathew 12:33

[aMorePerfectUnion]

FR is dragging along so badly today,
Tell me about it!

I thought it was on MY end!

.;…

Which body part are you typin’ wi’?

[Elsie]

Why do you claim to be Christian when you don’t take Jesus at His word?

That would be a good thing to ask JS!

After all, he was the one that 'translated' the BoM.

It ALSO had the COMMAND that ONE man should have ONE wife; just like the BIBLE; but somehow he managed to aquire a LOT more wives than the REAL Word of Wisdom commanded.

The following LDS leaders were just as rebelious in THEIR 'matrimonial selections'.

[Elsie]

Why do you claim to be Christian when you don’t take Jesus at His word?

Why do you claim to be MORMON when you don’t take GOD at His word in D&C 132?

[Elsie]

HUMAN fingers; just like PD has...

[MHGinTN]

Biblical Doctrine according to the LDS apologists:

--God The Father ALmighty was once a mere mortal and had a god over him, but progressed to exaltation and became god

--God The Father Almighty has wives who pop out children, two brothers of which are Lucifer and Jesus

--God Whom the Bible states clearly is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth, well that God is not the Mormon god who has a body he brought along from his mortal walk before he became the Mormon god

--Mormons like killer here plan to reach exaltation and become a god, also, and rule over an earth-like planet

--Mormonism has many gods in its pantheon, and killer here wants to be one, too

--Jesus, according to the teachers/founders of Mormonism, had wives on earth

--The Jesus of Mormonism slaughtered thousands on this continent when He was resurrected

--Matter is eternal, but god(s) are made via their good living

--Mormonism believes ALL -not some, not most, not a little, but ALL- of Christinaity was in apostasy from the second centruy until Joseph Smith the peepstone divination conman restored the true christianity to humankind

--To enter into God's Heaven, one must meet all the Mormon requirements and be sealed in a Moron Temple

--And finally ... wait for it ... Mormons believe a sexual predator of married women, a man who was caught in false prophecies and manufactured imaginary translations of Egyptian heiroglyphs, who used a peepstone in a hat to fabricate the poorly written novel known as the Book of Mormon, this same man killed two men in a shoot out at his demise, yes, this man Mormons believe is the latter day prophet of god appointed to restore that which God promised the gates of hell coul dnot prevail against. And their proof is a more than eight hundred word fabrication SMith added at the end of the Old Testament Book of Gensis where he, Smith, prophesied his 'coming forth in these latter days!'

Ah yes, Mormonism, the more you know about it the more the adherents to this cult appear even more peculiar. Yes, these are a peculiar people. And for the record, killer, I believe Jesus as He speaks through the Bible. But I have no regard for your twisted opinion of what Jesus said when the Bible contradicts your assertions with many passages you apparently don't believe or cannot fathom.

In the spirit of delph, May God open your eyes and ears to the Truth you seem to eschew in favor of the ravings of a predation peepstone false prophet. Y'all come back now ye heuh.

[svcw]

Ok this last post was really difficult to follow because it is unclear who is saying what. However it appears you are saying: you do believe in eternal progression and you do not believe in eternal progression; you do believe in multiple gods and you do not believe in gods; you do believe that jesus is eternal and you do not believe jesus is eternal; you believe in salvation by grace and you do not believe in salvation by grace; you do believe you will one day be a god and you do not believe you will one day be a god; you do believe that works will save and do not believe works will save...............That pretty much sums up what you have been saying.