Posted on 08/31/2010 6:35:43 PM PDT by Gamecock
Ever seen something like this?
Have you ever seen something like this in the Bible - God saying, "Go meet with the Baal worshippers' and arrange a huge rally, an ecumenical service - talk about honor and integrity and family values.. and you can pray to Me, of course, and they can pray to Baal - in fact, hold the priest of Baal's hand as he prays.. that will be such a nice touch.. and its quite ok with me.. I, the Lord your God, the holy One, really don't mind.. that's because it will show so much love to people and it will open hearts to My religion and everyone will so appreciate you not being closed minded elitist bigots. It will do wonders for people's view both of you and of Me. Go do this in My Name."?
Ever seen that? Even a hint of it? No? Me neither. - JS
Were there Christians in good standing among the Founders? And if so, how would you reconcile that with the assertion so prominent in Smithian Mormonism that Christianity was in a state of continuous apostasy until Smith ‘restored’ Christianity for Jesus, yet Mormonism wasn’t fabricated until the 1830s?
Just recently Glenn spent time on his show touting artifacts in a museum in Ohio as items found in Indian burial mound regions which show a Hebrew influence in ancient pre-history times of this continent. He spouted a vague replay of what Mormonism apologists claim for the items, and in fact represented the finds incorrectly!
In reality the items were most likely stolen from a Jewish person around the 1800 mark--carved during the medieval period either in Spain or France, based upon the stone work, brought to this continent as family heirlooms of a devout Jewish family-- and once stolen, thrown away into the detritus trench near one of the much picked over Indian Mounds in the Ohio region of Indian mound earthworks. Several items were found and not all in the same location but in the same general vicinity to the Indian mounds.
The skull of the Jewish person was discovered with the forehead phylactery still attached, and the remains were deemed recent--bured within thirty years of discover--based upon the condition of the remains and the lack of natural effects which would occur if the skeletal remains were two thousand years old. There was also forensic evidence regarding the lettering system.
You can read about the controversy regarding these artifacts by googling 'The Newark Stones': look for the definitive explanation by Rachel Altman [ http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Altman_Newark.shtml ]
Dr. Altman's penetrating comment is: "If you found a US penny in a trench at a dig that was assumed to contain only ancient items, you wouldn't claim the penny to be a forgery when you saw it. First, however, you would have to recognize that it's a penny."
Sadly, Glenn was in gross error and omitted facts he had to have had regarding Phoenician contacts with this continent as the likely source of the stede and the mathematics of SOME mound arrangements. Whether Glenn was mislead and touted these errors innocently, or was touting these assertions because he wanted them to be true, he was in gross error and send the errors out over the airwaves. Personally, I believe he was mislead by ardent staff wishing to reinforce their Mormon beliefs. There is an LDS instructional video at Youtube which promtoes the exact same false assertions that Glenn recited to viewers.
Good standing with whom? There were all sorts who were orthodox, then some who were "dissenters", did not subscribe to the Nicene Creed and thought their faith was the original Christianity. John Adams was in that camp. My favorites among the Founders--Roger Sherman and Fisher Ames--were orthodox.
And if so, how would you reconcile that with the assertion so prominent in Smithian Mormonism that Christianity was . . .
Don't see any need to reconcile it, how I would reconcile it or why I should bother to try. I'm not interested in Mormonism and don't see how it relates to Beck's rally at all.
Okaaaaay, the apparent contradiction is of no interest to you. If you know little of Mormonism assertions, discussing the contradiction would be boring to you anyway. I hope you have a pleasant evening.
Amen!
Well, MHGinTN is probably right -- if you're not interested in Mormonism, indeed this could be "boring" to you...but since other posters might be following this, I'll explain it, anyway.
First of all this goes beyond Beck's rally. On Beck's program in the Spring, he would have what he called "Founding Father Friday." Well, on May 14, 2010, Beck had a guest & they focused on a Methodist minister, George Whitefield, who Beck described as "He's really not a founder, he's more of the seed for the founders." (Source: transcript of the show: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,592997,00.html)
Whitefield died in 1770; hence, he's not considered among the "founders." Anyway, at times Beck has absolutely lauded people like Whitefield and some of the founding fathers who were indeed Christian. On that May 14 show, Beck closed the show by saying: "You know, America, it's time to start talking about religion and time to start talking about the truth about all of these guys and if Jesus is involved, Jesus is involved."
And if you go to Beck's Web site, http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/199/42022/, you can see a "Council of Founding Fathers" whereby men like Whitefield are mentioned prominently. There, Whitefield is described as: In a sermon on Ecclesiastes called “The Folly and Danger of Not Being Righteous Enough,” George Whitefield, the great Revolutionary champion of the Great Awakening, echoed Joshua as he conquered the Promised Land. “Press forward. Do not stop, do not linger in your journey, but strive for the mark set before you. Fight the good fight of faith, and God will give you spiritual mercies.”
Now, that I've set it all up, what does this have to do with MHGinTN's comment about Beck's extremely positive comments upon those founding fathers who were Christian? What exactly needs "reconciliation?"
Well, according to Beck's "prophet," Joseph Smith, Smith said Christians were apostates. Smith labeled the Christianity of his day -- less than 50 years after our country's founding -- as 100% full of "corrupt" professing believers who embraced 100% creeds of "abomination." (Source: Joseph Smith - History, Pearl of Great Price, vv. 18-20)
To this very day, those Mormons who believe this is "scripture" adhere to it. (That's kind of what's funny about your ambivalent Lds neighbors & co-workers). On the one hand, they seem to share some of your values, and they, of course, like anybody, would love to get along with their neighbors and co-workers. But if they've read the above, and if they believe it, then they actually regard you -- if you're a member of an Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant church -- as rooted and 100% saturated in apostasy, corruptness and creedal abominations! They usually just don't like saying what they really believe to your face.
Well, anyway Smith and later Mormon leaders didn't say Christianity had gone bad between 1776 and the 1820s. No, the collective group of Mormon leaders over the past 180 years have claimed that Christianity has been in complete apostasy going back to the first or second century!
So, there's the apparent contradiction: You have Lds leaders, "prophets" Beck claims to believe in, who have outright labeled the Christian founding fathers and all other Christian leaders and believers as "corrupt" apostates who believed abominable things! Yet, you have Beck lauding these so-called "corrupt" "apostates."
There's a contradiction in need of "reconciliation!"
Therefore, either Beck is saying...
...#1 these Mormon leaders have been wrong all these years -- to the point of falsely slandering and falsely prophesying about the nature of Christian leaders -- [and if Beck really believes this, a man of integrity would call upon his church leaders to repent of false slander and false prophesy]
--or, #2 possibly Beck hasn't fully grasped this contradiction for whatever reasons [probably what is most likely the case]
(A third possibility would be that Beck believes what his "prophets" have said and is a "yes" man to his Mormon leaders re: Mormon "orthodoxy" on how they regard Christians and Christian leaders, but that publicly he has other inward reasons for pushing the founding fathers as a way to garner a more populist movement he is trying to secure)
Hey, what is this about ????
Surely Glenn Beck didnt LIE ???
Beck “I went to the National Archives and I held the first inaugural address written in his own hand by George Washington.”
Susan Cooper, National Archives Spokeswoman said:
“Those kinds of treasures are only handled by specially trained archival staff.”
Perhaps the few lurkers who missed the earlier answered exchanges will go “oh look, it must be true, no one can refute it”...
Getting harder for them to do...
There is the problem right there...
Seems more people today are getting their 'Christianity" from Oprah Winfrey and new age feel good books and presentations by "Christian" experts. We have seen ample evidence of that on these boards the past few days
The great irony is that as this continues even if we simply stick the the political arguments Beck makes, those too will fail to come about.
Without real traditional Christian leadership there will be no long term Conservative recovery. God is tolerant and he is patient but he will not be ignored. He built America, he can walk away from it.
Wow...
Their moms basement must just stink of bong smoke and 3 week old pizza leftovers...
Barely civil...
>>does Christmas fall on a pagan celebration!<<
Nowhere in the pages of scripture do we find a command to keep the celebration of Christmas. Nowhere in the pages of scripture do we find an example of any disciple keeping Christmas. The only time Christmas is even mentioned in the pages of scripture is to condemn it
Jere 10:1 (NKJV) Hear the word which Yahweh speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says Yahweh: “Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple.
God sent a series of prophets to the nation of Israel in an attempt to warn them of the impending consequences of adopting the idolatrous religious practices of their neighbors. Isaiah was instructed to write: “Your appointed feasts My soul hates” (Isaiah 1:14–15). Amos recorded: “I hate, I despise your feast days, and I do not savor your sacred assemblies” (Amos 5:21–23). Hosea warned Israel: “I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her New Moons, her Sabbaths—all her appointed feasts” (Hosea 2:11).
I have taken the position of trying to find what God instructed us to do regarding feast days or what days to celebrate and to find what pracices he hated or condemned.
Cheristmas...
3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple.
____________________________________________________
Gollies...
I think I’m right about this next...
and the mormons had a Christmas tree in the 200th birthday display for Joey Smith in that cute little mock up of a cabin complete with cradle for the 23 Dec big doings...
But then I guess its OK to have a Christmas tree in the Smith cabin for the baby Joey...
Just as long as there is no celebration for Jesus , and DEFINITELY no Christmas tree...
GF do you have the pic of the glassed in Joey-in-the-manger ???
That’s disgusting!!
Teppers..Thanks...
Thats the one...
Surely thats not a CHRISTMAS TREE to the right ???
“does Christmas fall on a pagan celebration”
YES !!! Joey Smith’s birthday !!!
ROFLMBO
Resty, I asked the Lord for understanding and He instructed me to think about it in this way: How is it that Glenn Beck is touting the Founder’s faith, their Christianity, when Beck’s own religion claims all of Christianity was in apostasy until Joseph Smith claims he restored real Christianity, and Mormonism had not yet been fabricated at the time the Founders’ lived? Could it be that Christianity did not need smithian restoration thus the Founders were Christians in good standing, inspired by God, as in Divine Providence?
Perhaps you would like to find the answer to that from those feeding you material to post at FR.
***
I don’t who it was that you think you were listening to for instructions MHGinTN
___
But it is well documented that the founding fathers struggle with getting self out of the way as to allow the Lord to inspire and teach.
Here investigate southern Chirstian site
http://wallbuilders.com/
PS One of many voices observation
To discerning persons, the rally was not about Glenn Beck. It was not about Sarah Palin. This rally was about freedom, honor, our American heritage, and sacrifice. And foundationally, it was about God.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jim Garlow.
I agree.. As I look around me I see what is perhaps the judgement of God on this nation.
.Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
This brings up an interesting possibility even Jim Robinson might consider: is Glenn Beck--whether unwittingly or on purpose--preparing the way for a rise in Romney stocks, as merely another of 'the conservatives who practice their religious beliefs as they see fit yet hold to the founder's principles?'
Shouldn't we pause to consider how the duplicity is being staged, pushing the contradictory nature of Mormonism founding beliefs in apostasy of Christianity to the back burner while bringing to the fore the notion that 'any religion is useful to return Americans to our founding principles'--hence the black robed brigade which included an Islamic Imam among the brigade champions?
Glenn Beck's rally may have been one giant step in trying to soften the American people's response to exposing of Mormonism realities. We certainly have a small brigade of Mormonism apologists working the Internet on especially conservative sites trying to spin the Beck rally as 'all about returning to the foundering principles, without regard to what religion is your choice ... any religious system is valid so long as the founders are the focus!'
In that light, is it important to resolve the contradictions between Beck touting the Christian founders and the basis of Mormonism being that Christianity was completely apostate since the second century CE? We may get a big clue if soon Romney begins a slow revival of pointing to the founders as our guides ...
And I actually believe Glenn is not aware that there is a glaring contradiction in his schtick. I believe he loves this country and wants it to renew a closer walk with God so that it still flourishes when his children are grown. I wonder, can a movement based upon a duplicitous foundation actually lead to national revival?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.