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To: MHGinTN
Were there Christians in good standing among the Founders?

Good standing with whom? There were all sorts who were orthodox, then some who were "dissenters", did not subscribe to the Nicene Creed and thought their faith was the original Christianity. John Adams was in that camp. My favorites among the Founders--Roger Sherman and Fisher Ames--were orthodox.

And if so, how would you reconcile that with the assertion so prominent in Smithian Mormonism that Christianity was . . .

Don't see any need to reconcile it, how I would reconcile it or why I should bother to try. I'm not interested in Mormonism and don't see how it relates to Beck's rally at all.

123 posted on 09/01/2010 11:09:17 PM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: Brugmansian

Okaaaaay, the apparent contradiction is of no interest to you. If you know little of Mormonism assertions, discussing the contradiction would be boring to you anyway. I hope you have a pleasant evening.


124 posted on 09/01/2010 11:17:50 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Dem voters, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when deceived.)
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To: Brugmansian; MHGinTN
Don't see any need to reconcile it, how I would reconcile it or why I should bother to try. I'm not interested in Mormonism and don't see how it relates to Beck's rally at all.

Well, MHGinTN is probably right -- if you're not interested in Mormonism, indeed this could be "boring" to you...but since other posters might be following this, I'll explain it, anyway.

First of all this goes beyond Beck's rally. On Beck's program in the Spring, he would have what he called "Founding Father Friday." Well, on May 14, 2010, Beck had a guest & they focused on a Methodist minister, George Whitefield, who Beck described as "He's really not a founder, he's more of the seed for the founders." (Source: transcript of the show: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,592997,00.html)

Whitefield died in 1770; hence, he's not considered among the "founders." Anyway, at times Beck has absolutely lauded people like Whitefield and some of the founding fathers who were indeed Christian. On that May 14 show, Beck closed the show by saying: "You know, America, it's time to start talking about religion and time to start talking about the truth about all of these guys and if Jesus is involved, Jesus is involved."

And if you go to Beck's Web site, http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/199/42022/, you can see a "Council of Founding Fathers" whereby men like Whitefield are mentioned prominently. There, Whitefield is described as: In a sermon on Ecclesiastes called “The Folly and Danger of Not Being Righteous Enough,” George Whitefield, the great Revolutionary champion of the Great Awakening, echoed Joshua as he conquered the Promised Land. “Press forward. Do not stop, do not linger in your journey, but strive for the mark set before you. Fight the good fight of faith, and God will give you spiritual mercies.”

Now, that I've set it all up, what does this have to do with MHGinTN's comment about Beck's extremely positive comments upon those founding fathers who were Christian? What exactly needs "reconciliation?"

Well, according to Beck's "prophet," Joseph Smith, Smith said Christians were apostates. Smith labeled the Christianity of his day -- less than 50 years after our country's founding -- as 100% full of "corrupt" professing believers who embraced 100% creeds of "abomination." (Source: Joseph Smith - History, Pearl of Great Price, vv. 18-20)

To this very day, those Mormons who believe this is "scripture" adhere to it. (That's kind of what's funny about your ambivalent Lds neighbors & co-workers). On the one hand, they seem to share some of your values, and they, of course, like anybody, would love to get along with their neighbors and co-workers. But if they've read the above, and if they believe it, then they actually regard you -- if you're a member of an Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant church -- as rooted and 100% saturated in apostasy, corruptness and creedal abominations! They usually just don't like saying what they really believe to your face.

Well, anyway Smith and later Mormon leaders didn't say Christianity had gone bad between 1776 and the 1820s. No, the collective group of Mormon leaders over the past 180 years have claimed that Christianity has been in complete apostasy going back to the first or second century!

So, there's the apparent contradiction: You have Lds leaders, "prophets" Beck claims to believe in, who have outright labeled the Christian founding fathers and all other Christian leaders and believers as "corrupt" apostates who believed abominable things! Yet, you have Beck lauding these so-called "corrupt" "apostates."

There's a contradiction in need of "reconciliation!"

Therefore, either Beck is saying...
...#1 these Mormon leaders have been wrong all these years -- to the point of falsely slandering and falsely prophesying about the nature of Christian leaders -- [and if Beck really believes this, a man of integrity would call upon his church leaders to repent of false slander and false prophesy]
--or, #2 possibly Beck hasn't fully grasped this contradiction for whatever reasons [probably what is most likely the case]
(A third possibility would be that Beck believes what his "prophets" have said and is a "yes" man to his Mormon leaders re: Mormon "orthodoxy" on how they regard Christians and Christian leaders, but that publicly he has other inward reasons for pushing the founding fathers as a way to garner a more populist movement he is trying to secure)

127 posted on 09/02/2010 12:54:32 AM PDT by Colofornian
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