Posted on 08/23/2010 3:19:13 AM PDT by markomalley
The ads are catchy. Upbeat music plays as the surfer, the artist or the skateboarder states his or her beliefs about life.
They all end with, "And I'm a Mormon."
On July 26, Pittsburgh became one of nine test markets for the advertising campaign that cheerfully counters stereotypes of Mormons as straight-laced, white, humorless and sexist. The campaign from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes a revamped website at www.mormon.org.
The ads arrived on the heels of an anti-Mormon backlash by some gay rights activists on the West Coast. But the campaign's designers said it responds only to numerous survey findings that half of Americans don't know a Mormon.
"It's time to reintroduce ourselves," said Scott Swofford, the director of mormon.org.
"We hope the spots portray Mormons as diverse people who are united in their belief in Jesus Christ. ... We hope [Americans] see that Mormons are friendly, charitable, giving to others. We aren't perfect, but our behavior ought to reflect our beliefs."
(snip)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that it is the true church, which God restored in the 19th century, long after other churches had lost the complete message of Jesus. The Book of Mormon, considered by the church to be an equal companion to the Bible, says that ancient Israelites came to the Americas around 600 BC and that the resurrected Jesus visited their descendents in America.
The Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches don't recognize the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as Christian because it rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. It teaches that God is the father of the spirits of all people born on the earth. Jesus is considered the first of God's spirit children and also God's physical son.
(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...
OK Deb, review time. In post 106 CC replied to your question with mormon doctrine as an answer to your question. It starts pointing out the differences between the mormon jesus and the Christian Jesus.
In post 113 (your reply to 106) you accuse CC of " distorting the meaning ". Now I find your later statements that you are seeking to learn more juxtaposed against that statement. Your first step needs to be acknowledging that the mormon definitions are correct.
Now who was the first to strike out sister? Instead of being humble and acknowledging that a former mormon, presenting the information you say you are looking for is being snarky for providing the correct information - you start dismissing the information as snarky and hateful. Go ahead and go back up the thread Deb and prove me wrong otherwise.
Please, go shopping and clear your head. If you want answers, we'll still be here in one form or another. However, calling experts 'snarky' is not the way to accomplish it.
Hi Deb,
I think if you want to get a clear picture about Mormonism, you are better off not relying only on information from people who are strongly opposed to it.
A couple of good starting points would be sites published by the LDS Church
www.lds.org
www.mormon.org
Regards,
Normandy
and the patience of Job.
yea, a ‘Godzilla’ facepalm is definitely in order with this one!
Like this -
How can I acknowledge "that the mormon definitions are correct" if I know nothing about it and am asking questions?
I didn't "strike out", I said she was "snarky". That seems playful to me which is how I meant it. When I strike out you'll need bandages.
All this sanctimony coming from someone named "Godzilla" is truly hilarious. And it seems to me that people who are Mormons on this thread are displaying oceans more charity and generosity of spirit that the ones who need to slap down people who are trying to understand.
Cumorah located in New York
(some info may be duplicated in this file)
Is the Hill Cumorah in New York?
Numerous leaders of the Mormon Church have taught since the earliest days of the Church that the Hill Cumorah in New York (the very same Hill Cumorah that Joseph Smith claimed he retrieved the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated from) is the very same Hill Cumorah which is mentioned in the Book of Mormon in Mormon 6:2 ( And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah , and there we could give them battle. ) where at least 230,000 men died in battle using steel weapons and armor.
However, this battle was about one tenth the size of the battle which took place at the same exact location approximately 1,000 years earlier when, according to Ether 15:2 “nearly two millions “ of the Jaredites had their last great battle, also using steel weapons and armor.
The obvious reason Church apologists want to deny that Joseph Smith’s Hill Cumorah is the same one that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon is simple; there is literally not a trace of evidence to support the claim that 2,230,000 men died in battle using steel weapons and armor at the tiny hill now owned by the LDS Church in the State of New York called Cumorah.
However, you will see by the following quotes that many Mormon Church leaders have taught (and continue to teach) that over 2,230,000 men did indeed die at the Hill Cumorah in New York.
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“The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished, was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening.” (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Feb. 11, 1872 Journal of Discourses Vol. 14, pg. 331)
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“These records were carried by Ether from the hill Ramah, afterwards called Cumorah, where the Jaredites were destroyed, as well as the Nephites.” (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, May 18, 1873 Journal of Discourses Vol. 16, pg. 50
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“Thirty-six years prior to this time his nation was destroyed in in what we term the State of New York, around about a hill, called by that people the Hill of Cumorah, when many hundreds of thousands of the Nephites-men, women and children, fell, during the greatest battle that they had had with the Lamanites.” (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Aug. 25, 1878 Journal of Discourses Vol. 20, pg. 62)
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“It will be, next Thursday night, 54 years since the Prophet Joseph Smith, then but a lad, was permitted by the angel of the Lord to take the gold plates of the Book of Mormon from the hill Cumorah, as it was called in ancient times, located in the State of New York. “ (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Sept. 18, 1881 Journal of Discourses Vol. 22, pg. 224)
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“Finally, they became so utterly wicked, so fully ripened for destruction, that one branch of the nation, called the Nephites, gathered their entire people around the hill Cumorah, in the State of New York , in Ontario County; and the Lamanites, the opposite army, gathered by millions in the same region. The two nations were four years in gathering their forces, during which no fighting took place; but at the end of that time, having marshalled all their hosts, the fighting commenced, the Lamanites coming upon the Nephites, and destroying all of them, except a very few, who had previously deserted over to the Lamanites.” (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, April 6, 1874 Journal of Discourses Vol. 17, pg. 24)
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“The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3, 1928, definitely establish the following facts: That the Hill Cumorah, and the Hill Ramah are identical; that it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites, fought their great last battles; that it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his’ son, Moroni. We know positively that it was in this hill that Moroni deposited the abridgment made by his father, and his own abridgment of the record of the Jaredites, and that it was from this hill that Joseph Smith obtained possession of them. “ (President Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1928-Morning Session)
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“Cumorah, the artificial hill of north America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. Around that mount died millions of the Jaredites; yea, there ended one of the greatest nations of this earth. In that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly fifteen hundred years. — That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. There, too, fell the Nephites, after they had forgotten the Lord that bought them. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord.” (The Latter-day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate, Vol.2, No.2, p.221)
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“The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York .” (Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith , chapter 14)
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“It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Rama. It was approximately near to the waters of Ripliancum, which the Book of Ether says, “by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all.” Mormon adds: “And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents round about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.”
“It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon.
“Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery, Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the Spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history....” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3, Bookcraft, 1956, p.232-43.)
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“In the western part of the state of New York near Palmyra is a prominent hill known as the hill Cumorah. On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries agoevents which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation .
[Editor’s Note: About 20 short paragraphs later this speaker says the following]
“This second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites , flourished in America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites” (Talk given by President Marion G. Romney in General Conference, October 4, 1975, Ensign Nov. 1975 pg. 35)
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Apostle LeGrand Richards, in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, chapter 7, also stated that Cumorah is in New York.
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“Both the Nephite and Jaredite civilizations fought their final great wars of extinction at and near the Hill Cumorah (or Ramah as the Jaredites termed it), which hill is located between Palmyra and Manchester in the western part of the State of New York.
“Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and many of the early brethren, who were familiar with all the circumstances attending the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in this dispensation, have left us a pointed testimony as to the identity and location of Cumorah or Ramah.”(Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 174-175, Bookcraft 1966)
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On July twenty-fifth of this year, as I stood on the crest of that hill admiring with awe the breathtaking panorama which stretched out before me on every hand, my mind reverted to the events which occurred in that vicinity some twenty-five centuries agoevents which brought to an end the great Jaredite nation. (Marion G. Romney, Americas Destiny, Ensign, Nov. 1975, 35)
“This time it will have to do with so important a matter as a war of extinction of two peoples, the Nephites and the Jaredites, on the self same battle site, with the same ‘hill’ marking the axis of military movements. By the Nephites this ‘hill’ was called the ‘Hill Cumorah,’ by the Jaredites the ‘Hill Ramah’; it was that same ‘hill,’ in which the Nephite records were deposited by Mormon and Moroni, and from which Joseph Smith obtained the Book of Mormon, therefore the ‘Mormon Hill,’ of todaysince the coming forth of the Book of Mormonnear Palmyra, New York. (B.H. Roberts, Studies of the Book of Mormon, p.277)
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In 1990 the office of the First Presidency of the LDS Church stated that Cumorah is in New York:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Office of the First Presidency
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150
October 16, 1990
Bishop Darrel L. Brooks
Moore Ward
Oklahoma City Oklahoma South Stake
1000 Windemere
Moore, OK 73160
Dear Bishop Brooks:
I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place.
The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.
The Brethren appreciate your assistance in responding to this inquiry, and asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study.
Sincerely yours,
(signed)
F. Michael Watson
Secretary to the First Presidency
The facts seem to indicate that the official stance of the LDS Church is that the Hill Cumorah in New York is the site of two major Book of Mormon battles which resulted in a combined body count of approximately 4,230,000 Jaredites first, then Nephite/Lamanites (a highly conservative estimate) of men, women and children. Considering the archaeological gold mine this place must be it is too bad the Church doesn’t at least turn the site over to National Geographic to start some digging and recovery work on what must be the burial site of millions of bones and tons of primitive early American weaponry. The Church has done no archeology at Cumorah and continues to unofficially allow FARMS to promote the red herring of looking at sites in Latin America.
There are now competing factions within the LDS church for Book of Mormon tours. One faction tours Central American sites and one tours New York, Canada, and both factions are at odds with each other. How is it, that BYU FARMS Apologists that dont officially speak for the church and non- official church tour operators can throw out what Apostles and Prophets have taught and what the BOM says? Is that not criticizing your leaders and teaching against Church doctrines?
>Both the Nephite and Jaredite civilizations fought their final great wars of extinction at or near the Hill Cumorah (or Ramah as the Jaredites termed it), which hill is located between Palmyra and Manchester in the western part of the state of New York.
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 175
>...second civilization to which I refer, the Nephites , flourished in America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites”
(Talk given by President Marion G. Romney in General Conference, October 4, 1975, Ensign Nov. 1975 pg. 35)
>”It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon.
>”Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery, Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the Spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history....”
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3, Bookcraft, 1956, p.232-43.)
>”We visited the Hill Cumorah and were accorded the courtesy of going thereon by the wife of Mr. George Sampson, a brother of Admiral Wm. Sampson, who before his death owned the property.....We were delighted to be there. Looking over the surrounding country we remembered that two great races of people had wound up their existence in the vicinity, had fought their last fight, and that hundreds of thousands had been slain within sight of that hill.”
(Elder George Albert Smith, Conference Report, April 1906, p.56)
>”It will be, next Thursday night, 54 years since the Prophet Joseph Smith, then but a lad, was permitted by the angel of the Lord to take the gold plates of the Book of Mormon from the hill Cumorah, as it was called in ancient times, located in the State of New York. “
(Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Sept. 18, 1881 Journal of Discourses Vol. 22, pg. 224)
Notice I did not say from Mormons themselves, for you will learn nothing, the first most awesome power in the LDS is Public Relations.
Remember that you have to separate a lot of the innocent good Mormons from their practice and the operators of their “faith”. There are a lot of professional apologist out there who have a serious vested interest in maintaining the story.
If it is so awful why would you want to be branded a Christian?
You tell me your the one murmuring!
___
NO Milk or Meat crap just the truth. God wants us to tell the truth. It should not be something avoided or sugar coated. If you believe that you can work for salvation then that should be your stance.
Sounds like lucifer is getting impatience with the message!
___
Jesus Christ is big enough to be enough. If you diminish his work that is your sin not mine. My works are worth a hill of beans. They will not stand up to anything. No matter what I do, what I have done is ten times worse.
You said if you are not humbling working with the Lord!
I suppose that it may.
BTW do you have a dog in this particular hunt, or are you just here to make editorial comment?
If by "dog" you mean do I hate Mormons, hate non-Mormons, or just hate people with other beliefs, then I'd have to say that, no, I do not have a dog in this particular hunt.
If my comment has distracted you from your original train of thought, I apologize.
Have a blessed day.
One caveat, read them freely and without outside influence of any type and weight them against what is real and what you know. You will have your answer.
I’m good, but I am not god...
Okay, this is starting to sound like homework. Can’t I just ask a really stupid question every once in a while and then go shopping?
Sometimes in our attempts to mimic the world, and contrary to the prophets counsel, we run after the worlds false educational, political, musical, and dress ideas. New worldly standards take over, a gradual breakdown occurs, and finally, after much suffering, a humble people are ready to be taught once again a higher law. Now during all this gradual lowering of standards, the righteous should be living up to the highest personal standards they can, not forcing those standards on others, but preparing for and awaiting a better day, which surely must come. This leads me to another principle, and that is that a leader cannot lead without followers. If better standards are to be observed, there must be a better people to do it.
Thank you so much.
The Lord has given to man a code of laws that we call the gospel of Jesus Christ. Due to lack of inspiration and spiritual guidance, men may differ in relation to these laws and their application, but there can hardly be a dispute in regard to the fact that such laws do exist, and that all who seek entrance into that kingdom are subject to them. We teach as fundamentals, first, faith in God the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost; second, sincere repentance from all sin; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. No man may enter into the kingdom of God without first meeting all of these requirements. This is virtually what the Lord declared to Nicodemus when he said: Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5.) It must be accepted by all who profess belief in our Savior that this edict is true and final. However, in the centuries past and even now in many so-called Christian communities, a wrong application of this doctrine has led to serious errors and unwittingly to the committing of grievous sins. I refer to the doctrine which proclaims that all who in the flesh have not professed belief in our Lord, or heard of him before death removed them from the earth, are forever damned and without means of escape from the torments of hell. This false conception and application of gospel truth has been a teaching of so-called Christianity from the earliest centuries of our era, but it never was a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. In his Divine Comedy, Dante depicts the doctrine of damnation for unfortunate souls who die without a knowledge of Christ, as that doctrine was taught in the thirteenth century. According to the story, Dante is lost in the woods, where he is met by the Roman poet Virgil, who promises to show him the punishment of hell and purgatory, and later he is to have a view of paradise. He follows Virgil through hell and later into Limbo, which is the first circle of hell. Here are confined the souls of those who lived virtuous and honorable lives but who, because they were not baptized, merit punishment and are denied forever the blessings of salvation. As Dante looks upon these miserable souls in the upper stratum of hell and sees, as the story says, many and great, both of children, and of women and men, he marvels. His guide asks: Thou askest not what spirits are these thou seest? Dante shows a desire to know, so the guide continues: I wish thee to know, before thou goest farther, that they sinned not; and though they have merit, it suffices not: for they had not Baptism, which is the portal of the faith that thou believest; and seeing they were before Christianity, they worshipped not God aright; and of these am I myself. For such defects, and for no other fault, are we lost; and only in so far afflicted, that without hope we live in desire. (Philo M. Buck, Jr., ed., An Anthology of World Literature [New York: Macmillan Co., 1940], p. 446.)
Actually not really, but some have offered you answers and you seem more put out with them than anything else.
Also there is always the fact that due to the massive PR blitz that is the LDS since basically their founding, it is hard to really expose them without their defenders doing the “evil bad anit” dance, despite the fact we use their very doctrine to make our points.
That is why I send you after LDS info, get it from the horses mouth. When read without the “loving” influence of the LDS professional sales staff known as missionaries who will delightfully guide you to the answers they want you to think you want and tugging on the ole heart strings, LDS material is the best “anti” material out there.
To answer another question, we as Christians are called to save our fellow man. Most of the time that is a simple witness. But there are those caught up in the webs of deceits that cults spin, so tight that as it says in Jude 1:23, they need to be snatch from the fire.
I have been called a bigoted hater, told I hate Mormons. As a Christian, an old style non “Oprah Winfrey all pahts are valid” one who truly believes that NO ONE gets to the father except through Christ, I can think of nothing more hateful to do than let good people walk blithely and ignorantly into the Gates of Hell while I sit by and watch.
assalamu alaikum...
Do I really have to do this again resty?
Plowing the 2012 field for her dream man...
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