Posted on 05/25/2010 10:19:08 PM PDT by Outlaw Woman
CRI Statement
A leading East Coast New Age magazine, New Frontier, recently ran a “dirt for sale” advertisement in its November issue. But this one had a twist — the dirt had allegedly been supercharged by extraterrestrials (ETs). It stated: UFO LANDING site radiates cosmic energy alters psychic awareness. Soil samples $5 + p&h.
Not surprisingly, the Boulder, Colorado firm that ran the ad did not respond to a letter asking for proof that there was something unusual about the dirt.
While it is not immediately known how many people actually sent in their $5, the appearance of such an ad is not unusual. Alongside all the ads bought by New Agers — peddling crystals, “power within” seminars, and channeling sessions — are news bits about recent UFO landings, announcements of upcoming UFO conferences, and advertisements from some of the nation’s leading names in the field of UFOs and the New Age. Some of the ads are placed by alleged “walk-ins,” people who claim that ETs have literally invaded their bodies and can be summoned up (sometimes for a fee) to share wisdom and Ann Landers type advice.
In short, more and more people today are saying UFOs have landed. And while proof that they have seems consistently elusive, it is clear that the phenomenon of UFOlogy — a fascination with UFOs and alleged space creatures — has landed squarely in the middle of the New Age movement.
What is behind the recent resurgence of interest in UFOs, particularly in New Age circles?
(Excerpt) Read more at equip.org ...
Both stances are a matter of faith. The new age garbage can possibly be refuted with math, science, and logic. The individual can accept or reject reason, just the same as one can reject matters of pure faith.
The religious zealots will keep this thread alive for months. They are the reason I am hesitant to post in the first place. They just can't stand the notion that I find their interpretation of Scripture and their application of logic terribly flawed.
You can work through your family problem. The heart of the matter is to discredit the moronic and highly uneducated new age leaders.
I suppose that one could bring in all the data from many scientific resources to support your statement, and that at length. But I have found one doesn't have to look very deep at all when it comes to seeing quite clearly, and early on the “science” these UFO New Age instructors teach comes up false.....they weave just enough facts to make it look good....but most don't understand the basics they are teaching...and there is a whole host of their own gobble goop intertwined which confuses their science which isn't science at all. But to their listeners it's a good show.
The sad part is the listeners/followers buy it because it “sounds” so intelligent....further they then can claim the science is there to support their
“belief” which they frankly don't want to let go of.
If someone wants to “believe” there are little creatures walking around on the suns surface.....hey go at at...they have a free will to believe what they want to...however it is statistically impossible...not happening.
Additionally they claim their science does not abide by the “laws of science” which are known...because they operate on a “higher plane” in realms outside of earth. Unless of course “earthly” science supports theirs.
I cannot help but reflect on the scripture that “satan is the prince and the power OF THE AIR”.....to trot into other realms, be it in ones mind, which is where it is for the most part, or one is meeting up with entities from the spirit world.....that realm is not a place to go.
Furthermore....when, I believe it was Michael, was sent to assist...he was delayed because of battling with demons in that realm.... one could assume there is a sphere/realm (AIR) ,between our world and the heavenlies, which operates above us. If the angels of God get hung up there in battle what makes people of the earth even imagine possible that God would even permit or need us entering that place, let alone require us to go there.....there is zero scripture supporting us battling in those realms....and in fact that those battles are left to God to fight.
“what an amazing deception to keep us from the true battle of winning people to Christ right here on earth... Which is where we are assigned to work. Keep peoples minds, money and resources occupied elsewhere....not the first time diversions have been used in warfare.”
I’m confused by this statement you made;
“I have discovered that zealous Christians cannot handle the thought of ETs without equating them to demons.”
I know there are some, including FReepers I consider to be good friends of mine who believe all aliens to be of satanic origin. I also know that some Christians believe all ‘spirits’ or other such entities are demons as well. I know some other ‘zealous’ Christians that believe that it is very possible that we are not God’s only intelligent life created in this, or perhaps even another universe.
I don’t know why you would be hesitant to post just because others disagree with your specific interpretations or beliefs. And, given the fact that I did spend (not waste) time answering some clearly religious questions posed to me regarding my beliefs on Angels in particular, I find the statement that “religious zealots” will keep this thread alive for months a little off-putting.
If I am one of those that you feel makes you hesitant to post, I apologize for that. I don’t think I’ve said anything that could be interpreted as doing so, but since you went from basically calling out one or two people to speaking of 3 or more, and grouping us all together basically I just thought I’d throw that out there.
I think many times people take what is meant as pure information and sharing of opinion to mean that they are trying to force others to share their exact beliefs... Why not just say thanks, but no thanks, I disagree with that particular opinion?
Don’t worry - I’m not going to be offended if you do not respond, I was just curious... I don’t see why one needs to speak about someone in particular without naming names - as if people can’t tell who you are speaking about though. That’s kind of rude in itself, IMHO... And clearly that can lead to people making possible wrong assumptions that you are speaking about them when you may not be (like it feels to me for instance).
Depends on the humor of the duty mods!
I
HOPE
YOU know I’m not very PC minded.
Some folks get really testy when you you don't buy into their arguments. You are NOT one of those people. Conversation with you, on the other hand, has been enjoyable.
I don’t see why one needs to speak about someone in particular without naming names..
I was speaking in general. The longer one stays on one of these threads, the more likely I will become an object of scorn or ridicule. I can assure you, many of the "Bible Thumpers" do indeed question my basic intelligence or "Scripture aptitude" for rejecting their God-given opinions on this topic.
To name names, this would be Quix in particular. There are others whose names have been temporarily deleted from short term memory.
Exactly....and the purpose of this thread was how to speak to the family member involved and their understanding of what exactly the NEWAge UFO cults are about so they can help bring the member involved back from “the darkness”.
Obvious some do not see this as the dark side... and you are so right it centers on what one wants to “believe/faith”.....and believing is what separates those who simply have an interest and might find investigation of fun...and those who want to and do already believe and see it as true regardless of the true science which proves otherwise.....it then becomes a matter of faith/belief.
Below is a very interesting comment made on another site I thought might be of interest. He certainly gives food for thought between logic and faith.
In his book ....."101 Theory Drive, A Neuroscientist's Quest for Memory", by Terry McDermott, the author said something that I thought was worth mentioning to you. He was making reference to solving problems associated with understanding memory, however, I think there's a much broader application to what he said....... He said, that in problem solving: "Problems can arise when tools dictate direction, an illustration of the axiom that if you have only a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."
With regard to the current situation, my "hammer" is logic, so I see the problem as simply as a logical explanation (nail) of reality. Actually the current problem appears to be more of a fantasy/religious problem. If logic were the major force here, they probably wouldn't find themselves in the current situation, so any persuasion may be better provided from the biblical realm.
"If a person professes to be a Christian, but knowingly participates in many activities that are clearly spelled out in the bible as forbidden and demonic, it is reasonable to interpret this to be that they're not really a Christian and that they may be risking the loss of their soul. That cold hard reality may have a more profound effect on the person than all of the "LOGIC" in the world.
I don’t question your IQ . . . And, I’d guess your Bible understanding and knowledge is above average.
Quite amazing that God did say these would come and warned us to watch out for these....unfortunately the enticement to some is too much to avoid and their curiosity gets them started....that's playing on the edge of the dark side as far as I'm concerned and they highly underestimate the “whiles of the devil” and his means to ‘Hook” us.
I did not take his post as anti-semitism at all....for there is a Jewish Ufo cult. I took it as a sincere warning...unless he states otherwise I will accept it as a warning....because it shoud be just that.
LR, thank you for that. No apologies are necessary though. I’ve been grateful that this thread didn’t dissolve into silliness & mockery because it is a very serious situation. You are spot on...Prayer, earnest sincere prayer is the very best weapon and God will hear. The person being prayed for may go through some ‘bumpiness’ because praying starts the ‘ultimate spirtual battle/war’.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. As I said initially, I had posted this for another but have learned quite a bit myself. The main thing is please do pray for this person; that God will pull him back.
The age is drawing to a close and imo...well actually according to scripture, people will be more easily deceived. The defense for that is staying in the scriptures themselves and reading them and committing them to our hearts. We will then be ‘girded’ as Paul said.
Have a wonderful weekend and thanks again for your thoughtful post.
Yes....true assessment....short and sweet. Thanks. I suppose that one could bring in all the data from many scientific resources to support your statement, and that at length. But I have found one doesn't have to look very deep at all when it comes to seeing quite clearly, and early on the “science” these UFO New Age instructors teach comes up false.....they weave just enough facts to make it look good....but most don't understand the basics they are teaching...and there is a whole host of their own gobble goop intertwined which confuses their science which isn't science at all. But to their listeners it's a good show.
Well, Christians need to keep in mind that scientifically, and by experiment and in real-life practice and experience -- resurrection from the dead comes up pretty short in the rational and scientific realm ... :-)
It's only by the inerrant, infallible and authoritative Word of God, that we have the understanding of resurrection from the dead. There's nothing in science and reasoning that can come up with this. But, there is the testimony that we have from God's Word on the matter. That's what makes the difference.
Another way to say it, is that whatever Christians can use to discredit something like this, using that "scientific reasoning" -- can also be used to "discredit" many things in the Bible. In other words, it's a "defective methodology" to use science to do this.
So..., I don't find that very persuasive or useful, actually -- to have "science" speaking to issue in which "science" is not even designed to "speak about" in the first place ... :-)
It's not that science is not useful for what it does, but it's that science cannot speak to things which it knows nothing about, or which science has an inherent inability to address, being what it is.
Science is mankind's endeavor to discover certain knowledge that is within mankind's realm of understanding and things which can be addressed within that particular sphere of perception and interaction that mankind has. The problem is -- science is limited in that it's limited to mankind's immediate sphere of existence and experience and ability to perceive. Since there is much more which is outside of that realm, science is very limited.
The Word of God, however, is not limited, and goes beyond what science has even the ability to address. The Word of God, can address it, since it's "testimony" from the One who made the very parameters of existence, in the first place, that science addresses, for mankind. It's the Word of God, which has the "more complete information" and not science. ... :-)
To name names, this would be Quix in particular. There are others whose names have been temporarily deleted from short term memory.
I think what you may be running into here is many FReepers ability to see -- that to use the "rational" and "scientific" approach -- to matters which are outside of mankind's ability to be able to "reason" and to see and perceive and measure, and even to "comprehend" in the first place (instead of just being told about it) -- is an "irrational methodology" in and of itself.
And I think you're seeing their reactions to this "irrational methodology" being used -- instead of using the inerrant, infallible and authoritative Word of God -- which "reveals" things to us, instead of "reasoning" things to us. ... :-)
Actaully, I was being facetious.
With regard to the current situation, my "hammer" is logic, so I see the problem as simply as a logical explanation (nail) of reality. Actually the current problem appears to be more of a fantasy/religious problem. If logic were the major force here, they probably wouldn't find themselves in the current situation, so any persuasion may be better provided from the biblical realm.
The things that the Bible addresses, is a "worldview" -- of which very importand and critical "parts" are completely outside of the realm that either logic or science has the ability to address. Science and logic are completely lost here, as to their ability and power.
NOW..., some people seem to think that anything that is outside of the ability of science or logic to address -- is not "really real" in the first place and is only some kind of "mental construct" of imagination and nothing more. And thus, these people say, since it is outside of the ability of science and logic to address, it has no bearing on a "rational person's life"... They would be sorely mistaken in that viewpoint.
The Bible, on the other hand, has made an "express point" of saying that God has not chosen the "way" of the "wisdom of the world" to understand these things. The wisdom of the world would be such things as logic and science and reason. Thus God has said He has chosen to make Himself known outside of the ability of logic and science to even know, address, perceive or be able to "comment on".
As I said, some people think that this mean that "it doesn't exist" if it can't be addressed or commented on by logic and reason and science. God, however, "has revealed it" and not through these means, but by His inerrant, infallible and authoritative Word. This way, He has chosen to bring "logic and science and reason" to a point of no consequence, in addressing what He says is "real".
God has brought mankind's endeavors to a very low status and His revealed Word to the highest status possible.
And the Word of God is clear that before "understanding" -- first comes knowing that God "is". Without that, no understanding comes.
And even then, though, God makes it clear that knowing that "God is" -- is not enough, because we see the following in that people suppress the knowledge of God and God gives them over to their silly and inconsequential ways and supposed "wisdom of the world" ...
Romans Chapter 1 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Actaully, I was being facetious.
The trouble with that, is that there have been postings of that very same graphic by those who are neither facetious nor engaging in sarcasm -- and it has fairly represented the poster's viewpoint of the Jews ...
I agree with your solution but as others have indicated, the person involved (imho) has to be somewhat receptive and has a doubt about the belief. It is truly a spirtual warfare for his mind and this type of teaching/warning surfaces in Scripture over and over again.
With that said, I'm not sure what your interpretation of a zealous Christian or religious zealot would be. You seem to imply (I may be misunderstanding your point) that if someone asserts that the presence of a spirtual being or ET is demonic, they are a zealot? From what I've read, the Bible is largely silent on ET's, it is not however, silent about spirtual forces and entitities.
The case was made to me years ago, that Eziekel's vision of a 'wheel within a wheel' could have been a possible indication of a UFO but...that was only speculation. jimho, if ET's existed and were spotted throughout time or prophesied about, God would have made that plain to us in His word. I doubt the existance of them myself but not because I'm a zealot but because there is no hardcore evidence,only fabricated tales by humans. And yes, my doubt also comes from Scripture as I've yet to see God speaking about ET's.
It's pretty astounding that through all the years that man has studied this, nothing has materialized and yet these 'groups & cults' are hardcore and swear that they do exist. That people could fall into such a snare is extremely concerning.
WELL PUT.
THX.
The case was made to me years ago, that Eziekel’s vision of a ‘wheel within a wheel’ could have been a possible indication of a UFO but...that was only speculation. jimho, if ET’s existed and were spotted throughout time or prophesied about, God would have made that plain to us in His word. I doubt the existance of them myself but not because I’m a zealot but because there is no hardcore evidence,only fabricated tales by humans. And yes, my doubt also comes from Scripture as I’ve yet to see God speaking about ET’s.
= = =
NO. NOT NECESSARILY, AT ALL.
And, in terms of hard core evidence . . . there is
SCIENTIFICALLY VERIFIED HARD CORE EVIDENCE
FROM 3,000 TO 4,000 individual ‘landing’ or ‘near landing’ cases. The Aztec Symposium in 2009 had the expert on that give a fine presentation on that research by highly qualified personnel.
Yes, the oligarchy and black ops and psy ops folks have done a great job of confusing things, deception etc. . . .
which, the END TIMES GREAT DECEPTION the Bible does speak about.
It’s important to note that Guy Malone of
Does NOT say such things don’t exist. He ‘merely’ documents excellent reasons for calling the critters ‘fallen angels.’
Possible Physical Side-Effects of Meditation I am assuming when one spends time doing so as often these groups do encourage volumes of time....so they can do their astro-projection, the danger is that these groups teach that these are “healthy” symptoms of the body ridding itslf of toxins from bad relationships or memories of their past when in fact it is the body resisting the rituals they are putting themselves thru that God never intented the body to do.....:
uncontrollable fatigue, sleeping during the day
insomnia and hypersomnia
withdrawal-like symptoms when stopping or missing meditation
sleep paralysis (often understood as one form of “witnessing sleep”)
night-time hallucinations (hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations, often understood as “visions”)
possibly narcolepsy (See Persinger’s research, referenced here)
eating disorders, including anorexia, binge eating, morbid obesity
stomach and bowel complaints
chronic neck and back pain (especially among “Yogic Flyers”)
chronic headaches
difficulty with the menstrual cycle
involuntary body movements (twitching, spasms, head shaking, etc. in, and out, of meditation)
serious health effects, including death, when TMers turn to Maharishi Ayurveda and ignore traditional medical treatment.
Possible Emotional Side-Effects:
anxiety or fear
obsessive ideas
pathological guilt
dissociation (trancing out, spacing out, staring into space, forgetting what one is doing, losing a space of time, feeling as if one is not real, inability to remember events or periods in one’s life, feeling separate from one’s body or mind)
pseudo-identity (possessing both cult and non-cult personalities, similar to multiple personality disorder)
unusual difficulty remembering names or words, frequently forgetting in mid-sentence what one is saying, being aware that others are speaking but not understanding what they are saying
suicidal ideation, gestures, or successful attempts
“nervous breakdowns” (lay term for depression or other mental illness that results in inability to function normally — or hospitalization)
identity confusion: rapid changes in core beliefs such as spirituality, sexuality, personal interests; inability to settle on a career; unstable interpersonal relations
psychosis (most likely an already-present tendency to this disease is triggered by excessive meditation)
depression
unusual avoidance of difficult people, situations, memories — frequently resorting to meditation or sleep to deal with them
derivative narcissism
delusional thinking
auditory and visual hallucinations
divorce, frequently multiple (frequently attributed to rapid spiritual growth and “outgrowing” one’s partner)
Possible Cognitive Side-Effects:
significant difficulty with memory and/or concentration
incessant jumping from one thought or action to another, constant activity without accomplishing a goal, distractibility
Possible Social Side-Effects:
significantly decreased job or educational performance
difficulty obtaining or maintaining a job, jumping from job to job
relocating frequently, to the detriment of the individual
Possible Spiritual Side-Effects:
conflict with birth religion (Judaism/Christianity/Islam: puja, use of graven images, mantras are names of Hindu gods, yagyas to Hindu deities; Buddhism: conflict with tenets such as anatta or no-self)
spiritual confusion
replacing birth religion with TM/Hinduism or other spiritual practices
BTW,
I assume you know that CRI’s founder Dr Walter Martin’s family, last I checked, had good reason for their considering HH as a self-seeking, charlatan, deceiver, unscrupulous etc.
Quite the opposite sort of fellow from Guy Malone.
Also, probably 1,000 times more abrasive and disagreeable.
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