What is the definition of 'anti-Mormon'? - Anti-Mormon Caucus (Just Kidding)

Mormon Times ^ | March 5, 2010 | By McKay Coppins

[greyfoxx39]

What is the definition of 'anti-Mormon'?

 

I have often heard the criticism that Latter-day Saints classify everyone who disagrees with our beliefs as "anti-Mormon." Of course, the people who say this are usually anti-Mormons. Am I proving their point? I don't think so.

I actually agree that this is a problem in our church. After all, our belief system, if firmly embraced, demands a lot of personal sacrifice, and we often become hyper-defensive when we sense a threat to our faith.

Unfortunately, this often leads to irrational name-calling and blindly neglecting to differentiate between non-Mormons and anti-Mormons.

Of course, that's not to say anti-Mormons don't exist, or that it's unimportant to identify them. We just need to properly define the term.

First of all, we shouldn't call people who simply don't believe in Mormonism "anti-Mormons." We should call them Catholics or Baptists or Muslims or atheists. People who ascribe themselves to faiths or philosophies that contradict Mormonism should not automatically be seen as antagonists. They should be credited with having their own beliefs.

Now, what about people who try to convert Latter-day Saints to their belief systems? Are they anti-Mormons?

No.

The believing Baptist who testifies of his church's doctrine to a Latter-day Saint is trying to do something he believes is constructive. Even if he attempts to point out supposed flaws in Mormon doctrine, if his genuine intent is to save a soul and he maintains a polite, rational tone, I don't think he deserves the anti-Mormon label. After all, should Mormon missionaries be considered anti-Catholics or anti-Protestants?

The line, I believe, that separates non-Mormons from anti-Mormons is motivation. Anti-Mormons are people who put down Mormon beliefs, practices and people simply for the sake of destroying their faith. Not many anti-Mormons would admit that is their primary goal, of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't so.

For the most part, anti-Mormons should be ignored. But before that can happen, they have to be identified

[restornu]

Then why does the LDS use the Bible to prove their point but refutes the Bible when it disagrees with the LDS view?

The LDS has redefined every Christian ideology. Who does the LDS say Jesus is? You redefine who He is. Your LDS version of Jesus is not the Christian view of Jesus.

***

I understand you grew up in the tradition but the Lord defined who He is, not tradition nor man.

[SkyDancer]

I’m a Messianic Jew - figure that out .....

[T. P. Pole]

re:subset of Christian

I struggle with this, too, because the claim that Mormons are not Christian is not completely accurate.

Here's how I look at it.

If you believe that man's sinful nature demands/requires a Savior, and that Jesus Christ is that Savior, then you are a Christian (yes, I am simplifying the definition).

If you believe in Jesus Christ as defined by the creeds of traditional Christians, then you are a (orthodox) Christian (again, over-simplifying the definition).

The problem is that both categories go by the short-hand “Christian.”

It is clear that Mormons believe the first (that a Savior is necessary, and that Jesus Christ performs that role).

It is also clear that Mormons are not the second. Mormons do not adhere to the traditional definitions of (orthodox) Christianity, especially in the nature of the Trinity and the exclusive nature of the cross (since Mormons believe in distinct entities for three Gods, and that the sacrifice or atonement happen in both the garden and on the cross).

The example you use of the FLDS is a decent one. A “Mormon” is one who claims the Book of Mormon is scripture, revealed from God. A (orthodox) “Mormon” is one who follows the teachings of the Salt Lake “subset” of Mormonism. Again, the same label is used for both, causing confusion.

I have no problem with the FLDS or any other “splinter group” saying that they are Mormons. It is a decent shorthand to say that they are a subset of Mormonism. But they clearly are not part of the Salt Lake (or Brighamite?) splinter, and calling them Mormon confuses those that think “Mormom” and “Mormon” are the same thing. So I also understand the Salt Lake church's clarification.

Just like calling Mormons “Christian” confuses those that think “Christian” and “Christian” are the same thing. And I understand why the second “Christian” clarifies that Mormons do not believe in the traditional Christ (because it is true - they do not).

Which is why I use the “orthodox Christian” label to show the difference.

As for the changing focus, I think it is in reaction to the “Mormons are not Christian” claims. Mormons have said all along that they are not traditional Christians, that they did not come from a division of the current Christian church, and that the current Christian church did not have the full blessing of God (in as much as Mormons teach that the priesthood authority was lost in an apostasy).
But Mormons have always professed the need for a Savior, and therefore they have been “Christian” all along. But they never have been (orthodox) Christians, and probably could not become such and stay Mormon, regardless of any new revelation, because the differences are key components of the Mormon faith.

So, Mormons will continue to claim that they are (the first type) Christian, and correctly so. And (the second type) Christians will continue to claim that Mormons are not (the second type) Christian, and correctly so.

My experience in these threads is that we rarely get past this “I am - no you are not” stage, and therefore seldom discuss our actual differences.

[monkapotamus]

[SZonian]

"...omited and deleted the Word of the Lord"

Yet, you see NO problem with ADDING to the Word?

Interesting position you find yourself in.

You decry the scriptures as written, but will not subject your own "prophets" to the same standard in regards to their words.

Or is it that "all of the thinking has been done for you" once your "prophet(s)" have spoken?

[Godzilla]

I struggle with this, too, because the claim that Mormons are not Christian is not completely accurate.

Let me make this easy for you.

It boils down to the Person, Nature and Work of Christ Mormonism uses extra biblical sources to define Jesus as a created being who is a brother to satan as well as to us ontologically. It teaches from extra-biblical sources that there are a plethura of gods inhabiting the universe - each as a god over their own planet. It claims that Jesus is just another one of these 'gods'. Mormonism teaches that Christ's death was only sufficient to allow for a general resurrection of humanity. But to reach the highest heaven (once again relying on extra-biblical sources) man must do specified works, ordinances and actions in order to score enough points to become a god.

The Jesus of Christianity is the eternal uncreated creator, who created satan and his angels as well as created humans. We in no fashion are ontologically related to Him. The Jesus of Christianity is the Second Person of the Trinity - 3 Persons, 1 God - and is NOT polytheistic as taught in Isaiah. Jesus' death on the cross was completely sufficient for ALL my sin and his grace in giving me that full eternal life is not dependent upon any works that I could do - but is a complete gift to me.

Jesus cannot be both things at once - they are exclusive of each other. Look to your definitions TP, even your own prophet is on record stating that the Jesus of mormonism is DIFFERENT from the Jesus of Christianity.

Which is why I use the “orthodox Christian” label to show the difference.

And the use of orthodox is "having the right opinion", from orthos ("right", "true", "straight") + doxa ("opinion" or "praise", related to dokein, "to think"). Which means mormonism is not 'right'

[SZonian]

...“do not add or subtract”...

Then why did the LdS do this very thing in the JST of the Bible?

[SkyDancer]

The way you answer tells me you follow LDS teaching ... to point out other religious teachings on who they say Jesus is is not the point - the point is what the LDS says He is .... whatever others think is irrelevant to the conversation.

[greyfoxx39]

I will repeat my statement in 242.

I simply do not accept this. Again, this is allowing mormons to define Christianity by our silence on the matter.

It was good enough for mormons for a century and one-half to NOT be ANY kind of Christian. Dressing the matter up in satin and lace doesn't change the theology or the goal of mormonism.

The goal is that every soul living OR dead is to be converted to mormonism and to overwhelm Christianity with Joseph Smith's sect.

There is nothing about that goal that is accepting of Christianity that was established by Jesus Christ. Nothing. Because mormonism claims that the Christianity of Jesus Christ was erased and replaced by the theology of Joseph Smith.

Every Christian should keep this in mind.

The powerful missionary spirit and the vigorous missionary activity in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints becomes a very significant witness that the true gospel and that the authority are possessed here in the Church. We accept the responsibility to preach the gospel to every person on earth. And if the question is asked, “You mean you are out to convert the entire world?” the answer is, “Yes. We will try to reach every living soul.”

Boyd K. Packer-The Redemption of the Dead

And also, keep this in mind: "Packer has been an apostle and a member of the Quorum of the Twelve since 1970 and a general authority of the church since 1961. Currently, he is the second most senior apostle among the ranks of the church."

Link

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Mormons have said all along that they are not traditional Christians, “

Mormonism isn’t any kind of Christianity! Without the Biblical Christ who was GOD, there is no Christianity and no salvation.

Mormonism has a jesus that was created as a spirit child of a man who became a mormon god. The death of a created being could never pay the price for anyone’s sin except his own - hence, he could secure salvation for none, including himself.

This isn’t close to Christianity. Not even in the same galaxy. It is a weak, pitiful, man-made substitute that can neither save, nor offer eternal hope. It denies the Gospel of Grace and the INCREDIBLE sacrifice of the REAL Jesus Christ that was neither created nor made, but always existed as God.

ampu

[T Minus Four]

Mormons think they can save themselves by doing temple works, being baptised, etc, etc.

They think their (counterfeit) Jesus just opened a door to make it possible for them to do so.

[T Minus Four]

Resty, if Mormons are Christian, why can’t you come worship God with me in my Christian services?

[NoRedTape]

Anti-Mormon=Anti defamation of Christianity.

I couldn't give 2 shiatzus about mormons until they began the farce claiming they were "Christian".

They are not "Christians"; not even close. For SO MANY reasons. Just compare Christian Doctrine against mormon gibberish and the gap is clear as day. The mormons are just a cult that collect a lot of cash from the minions.

[T Minus Four]

The Bible is universal it does not belong to anyone group or faith but to many who used the scriptures to define their own creeds

That really torques me off! The Bible is not to be "used" to "define" your (or anyone's) twisted, perverted creed.

[Tennessee Nana]

The Nana Lady Slamdunks Joey Smith

Nana sits having a loverly cuppa tea in the kitchen of the lower level of the mormon after life. As usual Joey Smioth comes in and begs a cup..

Joey: Hi Nana youre looking nice. New hairdo..

Nana: No Joey, you cant have a cup of tea...

Joey: Did I ask for a cup of tea ?

Nana: and you cant have a cuppa coffee either..

Jpoey: Oh Nana. Just one little cup. Who would know ?

Nana: Your bishop will. No temple recommend for you.

Joey: how’s he gona know ?

Nana: He comes begging to. He’ll be here any moment...

Joey: My bishop ? I’ll excomunicate him..Now can I..

Nana: Too late you cant excommunicate him.. We’re all dead..

Joey: It’s just not fair...

Nana: Tell that to Emma..

Joey: What are those boxes ?

Nana: New deliveries for the kitchen..

Joey: What’s inside...

Nana: You can look...

Joey: Bag a coffee beens...Oh they smell so good...

Nana: ThunderBird Coffee for the Flying Inmans...you cant have any..

Joey: There’s a CAKE...

Nana; You cant have that ...

Joey: Why not ?

nana: Its a COFFEE Cake...

Joey: Blast...What’s this one..it looks yummy...

Nana: That’s Tiramisu for Reaganaut...

Joey: Oh I have died and gone to Heaven...

Nana: No you havent...tat’s for abominable Christians...Your rules again..

Joey: Oh will you forget my rules...Can I have some ?

Nana: No

Joey: Why not greedy pig...

Nana: Because its got coffee in it..

Joey: Isnt there anything in here that hasnt got coffee in it ?

Nana: Sure...There’s some Cheese Danish and some chocolates and some Big Macs from McDonalds...

jJoey: Now yer talkin...

Nana: Stop silivering.. you cant have any...

Joey: WHY NOT ???

Nana: Look at the other side of the box...

Joey: It says COFFEE...But its not all coffee..

Nana: It has COFFEE on the box so its all coffee inside...

Joey: but theyre Big Macs...that’s beef...

Nana: No Joey Theyre COFFEE...thats the name on the box..

Joey: ARRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Nana: Do you have to scream like that ? I’m trying to eat my lunch...

Joey: Lunch ? You just had Morning Tea...

Nana: So ? This is the mormon after life...you didnt leave any instructions so out here in the Outer Darkness of the lower level we call the kitchen, we just make it up as we go along...I never get fat so I can eat whenever I want to...

Joey: What’s that your eatin ? A ham sandwich ?

Nana: You cant have this...Its pig... remember ? You cant have anything to do with us pigs..

Joey: Blast...

Nana: Must you curse...we have a rule here...

Joey: OK I’m going...

Nana: dont let the door hit you in the butt...

Joey: What’s this big box behind the door ?

Nana: Which big box ?

Joey: Right there..That big one by the door ? Look it doesnt say COFFEE..

Nana: Oh yeah ? What does it say ?

Joey: T. E. A...

Nana: Oh yeah, Tea...You cant have anything in that one either...You cant have tea...

Joey: Oh Nana...You’re mean...

Nana: Stop whining Joey..Talk to the head honcho.

Joey: I am the head honcho.

Nana: Well there still is that other one...

Joeey: Who ?

Nana: Jesus..Have you talked to Him lately ?

Joey: I tried again yesterday..

Nana: Oh ? What did He say ?

Joey: The usual...Get away, I never knew you...

Nana: Hmmmmm well you did deny Him while you were alive...

Joey: Do you have to always rub it in ?

NMana: Suit yourself..You were the one who came down here to the kitichen...I didnt go up there bothering you...I never go up there bothering you...

Joey: No you sit down here drinking tea all day and dont offer me any...

Nana: Well kid them’s the breaks..You set it all up this way...

Joey: Nana, nice Nana...I’m just a poor miserable slob...

Nana: Keep talkin’

Joey: Can I have a cup of tea ?

Nana: It’s May I ?

Joey: May I have a cup of tea ?

Nana: Go back to the part about you being a slob...

Joey: Oh you never...

Nana: Joey !! Dont come down heree yelling at Nana. And stop stomping your feet.

Joey: Well what’s in that box..The one marked T E A ? It cant all be tea...

Nana: Oh no..There’s a leg of lamb, and potatoes and green beans, and carrots and peas...

Joey: I can have those things..

Nana: No you cant. Its in a TEA box...

Joey: Its only marked TEA !!! That’s not what’s inside.

Nana: Your mormon corporation was only marked The Church of Jesus Christ...But that’s not what was inside either !!

Joey: Cant ya ferget that ?

Nana: Complain to the Big Cheese if you dont like the rules..

Joey: Sometimes I wish I hadnt let that scam go so far..It was fun while it lasted but I guy could get himself killed with the stunts I pulled...

Nana: You did get yourself killed..

Joey: Yeah and I havent had anything to eat or drink ever since...I hope ya happy...

Nana: Joey, grow up...Anyway you cant have what’s inside that box for another reason...

Joey: What’s that ?

Nana: Look at the initials...

Joey: T. E. A. what does that mean ?

Nana: Trinitarian Eternity Association. The FI are all members...This box belongs to them. You taught against the Trinity and your mormons continued the blasphemeous practice. Your rules again...Right now the TEA are all on a day trip fishing in the Milky Way. Theyre be back later expecting their supper... I’ve got to get that leg of lamb on and peel the potatoes....

Joey: Can I stay for supper...

Nana: The outside of the box says T E A..

Joey: cant I change the rules ?

Nana: No its too late. You should have thought about what you were doing while you were still alive...Its appointed to every man to die once...and then the judgement...

Once youre dead its all over its too late...

[reaganaut]

LOL. My favorite line from my favorite Trek movie! I used to go around saying that even WHEN I was LDS.

[greyfoxx39]

ROTFLAICGU! Nana tells Joey to.....

[humblegunner]

You need to write for a sitcom.
Did I mention BRILLIANT?

[Elsie]

There are a handful who have made it their daily mission to if they could rid the LDS Faith.

Amen sister!

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[Elsie]

They say it is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints itself they are against but the members who are apart of what composed The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Aw Resty; you KNOW we love you!

Why ELSE would we keep trying to jog your memory so you'll remember just what Joseph Smith learned to be UNTRUE about PRESBHYTERIANism?