Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Cronos]

Scripture tells us the the cross is foolishness to the perishing, it does not matter how much they study they will not get it.

Yes, you have so-called Protestants here (no idea which particular group) who consider the cross shameful and a folly

[blue-duncan]

Is there something you want to tell us?

Madd Dawgs Shut Down

http://www.courant.com/community/hartford/hc-web-clubs-shut-down-0129jan29,0,3006857.story

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Wow! I saw the long knives come out at you after this. What came over you for quoting from a website of an organization APPROVED by the Vatican? Well, if websites of Vatican approved organizations are filled with crazies, then that sure cuts down on available sources. It sure seems like the vast majority of websites by Catholics are blasphemous according to OTHER CATHOLICS! :)

lol. I used to think the only links "approved" by FR Roman Catholics were those referenced by Roman Catholics, but surprise! Even those can be denounced (as the Roman Catholic caucus thread, "The Amazing Gift of the Priesthood," was ridiculed as a lie or even non-existent until it was shown the link was posted by a Roman Catholic!)

There's just no pleasing some people. Lol.

Here is another website by Catholics that includes another document, Dives in misericordia 1980.11.30. An excerpt:

"The motherhood of Mary in the order of grace," as the Second Vatican Council explains, "lasts without interruption from the consent which she faithfully gave at the annunciation and which she sustained without hesitation under the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. In fact, being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside this office of salvation but by her manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the graces of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she takes care of the brethren of her Son who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home."

Wow! indeed.

No wonder the RCC dismisses so much of the Bible. It condemns their confusion over Mary and her position in this world and the next.

Pity so many look elsewhere when Christ is all they need.

[Cronos]

I think the problem with Calvinism is it’s excessively legalistic form. As you know, the Eastern Orthodox say that the Western Church has become legalistic due to +Augustine and they have a point, but Calvinism takes it many steps further. God is a mystery and will always be a mystery to mortals like us. We can only know part of the Godhead — the entirety would explode our tiny consciousnesses

[Cronos]

It is not a have, it is a want. God changes our will when we are born again

Ok, so that's confusing -- do we have a will or not? From what you say, I understand that you believe that we do have a will of our own and God changes it to a will wanting God after we are born again. Is that correct?

[Cronos]

It's a book by Christoph Luxenberg, "The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran" --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_of_the_Koran

It's a good read. My own Arabic is terribly basic, so I can't personally verify what is written, but the book makes logical sense.

[Mr Rogers]

"If we agree that God is active, then we have to decide if the will God gave us is capable of being outside of God's control. Warfield is saying that if it is, then God can no longer be God because God would have created something more powerful than Himself."

Then Warfield has the brains of a doorknob.

If I allow Mia (Arabian mare) to make choices about what route to take, or to end a session of riding because her heart isn't in it that day, does that make Mia my rider?

If God gives us a choice about obeying him, or about responding to his invitation to dance, that is still God's business and his sovereign will.

"Further, Warfield is saying that not only CAN God control us, but that He WILL control us. For if He did not, if He gave away what He alone made, then He could no longer claim that this is HIS universe, etc."

OK, maybe Warfield doesn't even have the brains of a doorknob. If God doesn't force us to do every little thing, if God doesn't force us to commit sin, then God is not in control of the universe?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've had General Officers tell me to do whatever I though was best - but you can be DARN sure neither they nor I thought that put me in control.

"When I think of God's control over me I think of how much He loves me, and how much He is going to take care of me and teach me and keep me from harm."

True words and sentiment. "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."

Thank God! I don't want to be in control of my life. However, if I am to become a son, then I need to make some decisions - and God will decide how loose to hold the reins!

Now - completely off topic - prayer request. My daughter-in-law recently learned she is pregnant. She has been vomiting from time to time. Tonight she called, saying my son is trying to prevent her from eating odd things "because it will make you sick"!

Please pray their marriage survives...mine was on the rocks when my wife started pulling the pepperoni off of my slice of pizza while it was in mid-air! Then there were the bowls of pickles & ice cream...yech!

Last but not least, gratuitous horse picture...Mia thinking she's the Boss:

[Dr. Eckleburg]

FOREST KEEPER: ...quoting from a website of an organization APPROVED by the Vatican?

WAGGLEBEE: She didn't she posted from a BLOG. Which is fairly typical of what some routinely attempt to pass-off as "official Catholic websites".

Ah, but she did.

If you had read the website you would see that the Roman Catholics who run the site said the Legion of Mary is approved by the Vatican.

If you doubt the veracity of these Roman Catholics, your argument is with them, not me.

[Cronos]

violent verses which cancel out the meaning of the peaceful verses, as the violent verses were proclaimed by Mohammed at a later time.

Well pointed out -- because it is not a religious book, but rather a meandering list of "pronouncements" by a religio-politico-social ruler. Mo had domination over his followers political, social and religious life, both now and in the here-after, leading to them following him to death -- a very powerful tool for an earthly ruler.

The initial parts of the K talk about being nice to Christians and Jews (people of the book), because it was written when Mo was still a brigand, outlawed by Meccan pagans and supported to some extent by Jews and Christians there (since they thought he was a monotheist or even a member of their own religions). But, later, when he conquered Mecca (on an aside, did you know that Medina was originally built by Jews?), he turned around on his former supporters.

[Cronos]

“Yep. I’m right” —> were you predestined to say that at 2:40:16 PM on Thursday, January 28, 2010?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

God omniscience is without error. It is perfect.

If God's omniscience simply means He knows everything perfectly, everything blue-duncan said is correct. God is hostage to the whims of men who can outwit the sovereign Lord Creator.

[HarleyD]

That would indicate that we are to cooperate with God, rather than allowing our sinful laziness or anger or pride to become hindrances.

Was Elijah doing the Lord's work? Was the 7,000 prophets hiding in a cave doing the Lord's work? The answer is yes. Both were. Are Christians in China who boldly speak out doing "more" than those Chinese Christians who meet secretly?

The Lord's will will be fulfilled in all of us. Grant it that many times we ARE sinfully lazy. But the Holy Spirit will motivate and drive us. We cannot see all ends.

Some call this "easy believability" and others would say this is a lack of zeal. It certainly is true that pastors should give us all a swift kick in the pants once in a while to motivate us, just like Paul was doing. That is the pastors' job. But the true driver is the Holy Spirit who lays it upon our hearts for love and good works.

When a cobbler asked Luther what he could do to do the work of the Lord, Luther said, "Make a better shoe." That was very profound.

[Cronos]

. What came over you for quoting from a website of an organization APPROVED by the Vatican?

Quite a false statement:
1. the organisation is approved by the Vatican, there is no indication that the BLOGsite was/is approved by the Vatican
2. Since that is a BLOGsite, we do not know if it is the official blogsite of the organization or is a blog of a member of the organization.
3. The BLOGsite is in no way connected to the Vatican, unless you infer that that Vatican patrols and approves every line, every picture kept on a BLOGsite.

[Cronos]

In fact, being assumed into heaven she has not laid aside this office of salvation but by her manifold intercession she continues to obtain for us the graces of eternal salvation.

Yup, she obtain, i.e. GETs this for us. She has no power to give it to us, she asks God to give it to us (plain English)

[Cronos]

and so when it's pointed out that these aren't church-sanctioned websites, the circular "logic" kicks in that calls for priests and the Papal Internet Inquisition to come down with the wrath of our false gods and close these sites. It never dawns on those making the argument that this shut down never happens, because the priests and popes don't have the power over us they love to attribute to them

Exactly -- on the one hand, they criticise the Vatican for not being a ultra-censor, censoring BLOGs and then on the other hand, they cry out "inquisition" each time the Vatican says something (which they inevitably misinterpret)

[Cronos]

A lot of the websites that are offered as “official Catholic” websites aren’t don’t even belong to people who claim to be Catholic.

What about the lovely "Christian" website that was posted which attacked Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Reformed etc. with equal, unholy glee? It seems that many on this forum will even reach out to athiests or worse as long as it is anti-Church

[DariusBane]

Gosh, and I thought “Catholic” meant “Universal”.

[HarleyD]

From what you say, I understand that you believe that we do have a will of our own and God changes it to a will wanting God after we are born again. Is that correct?

No.

Man has a will that does nothing that pleases God.

God changes man's will to do things that pleases God.

Man was a child of wrath.

God changes man to become a child of God.

Man was a slave to sin.

God changes man to become a slave to righteousness.

Man is under the law.

God changes man to fall under grace.

Got the picture? Why is this so difficult? It's like turning on a switch.

[Cronos]

There are plenty of them, they tend to avoid these threads and many have privately expressed disgust at how some on these threads act. Free Republic may be one of the few places in America where you can see anti-Catholic bigotry

What's incredibly is how silly the points are -- easily proven as false (BLOGs presented as "Vatican approved websites" or "Catholic websites" and shown as "proof" of Catholic dogma) or just lazy (criticising the CCC but then admitting to never reading it or worse saying "too many pages -- who has the time")

[Cronos]

Xzins: So, while the "actions" of "God's creatures" do not "determine" His decisions, that does not mean those actions are not "involved" in the deliberation that precedes His decisions. Foreknowledge prior to creation, and then creating anyway, IS IS IS, predestining.

Dr e: Ain't. Ain't. Ain't.


Ah, civilised debate....