Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Cronos]

This might also be connected to their vision of a cosmos of slavery, in which one is either a slave to sin or to righteousness, but never free. And THAT in its turn might be connected to a view of soteriology which is about being saved or rescued from perdition, but is comparatively silent on what we are saved FOR.

Interesting point

[Cronos]

Paraphrasing: Their Meta-Group is invisible; their groups opportunistic assemblies of people so fractious that even if they agree on fundamental doctrine they fissiparate regularly into more and more particularly denominated groups, this one "Orthodox Presbyterian," that one "Bible Prebyterian the other "Evangelical Prebyterian - Re-formed edition," and so forth.

And that is so true, since, as you state "they might be uncomfortable with the very notions of family and community. " and "It is a strangely Lucretian Christianity in which particles of saved individuals swerve into accidental communities bearing an indeterminate relationship with the Body of Christ."

[Cronos]

Well, the concept of and the ramifications/effects of a belief in predestination troubles me -- it seems so akin to a Hindu belief of an upper-caste and it seems to negate the idea of an all-loving Christian God.

On other dogmatic issues, one can have a sensible debate and at times (like with the Orthodox) realise one is using different words for the same thing but predistination, and limited atonement seem like a basic either-or, no gray area or possibilities of misunderstanding.

[Cronos]

"You and I haven’t reached an agreement on a common language, much less on ontology." Zastanawiam się, co mówi t_c. Je pense qu'il ne connais qu'est-ce qu'il parle. Warum, ich weiß nicht. Tal vez, sólo para hacer un argumento?

[Forest Keeper]

The Catechism of the Church (963) acknowledges and honors Mary as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. It does not claim that she is either a redeemer of co-redeemer.

Perhaps Pope Benedict XVI has not gotten the memo. Here is an excerpt from his GENERAL AUDIENCE - Saint Peter's Square Wednesday, 8 April 2009:

Dear brothers and sisters, let us prepare to live the Holy Triduum intensely, in order to share ever more deeply in the Mystery of Christ. We are accompanied in this itinerary by the Blessed Virgin who silently followed her Son Jesus to Calvary, taking part with deep sorrow in his sacrifice and thus cooperating in the mystery of the Redemption and becoming Mother of all believers (cf. Jn 19: 25-27). [emphasis added]

If this does not declare Mary as Co-Redemptrix then I don't know what does. It's right there, straight from the Pope's mouth, not a year ago.

[Cronos]

“That doesn’t describe the Baptist church I attend. All the Baptist churches I’ve been in teach we are a body, and cannot neglect each other.” —> that is true as you state, however, on this thread we have Orthodox Presbyterians, individuals (who seem to be searcing for the reasons for the Trinity, so at an initial stage of searching), various other congregationalists, pentecostals and even a paleo-Christian or Judaic-Christian (URi’el— I’m not sure what group you would be in, sorry)

[Cronos]

God gave Noah, Abraham a choice to follow him or not. They sometimes did, but they had the free will to choose.

[Cronos]

the congregation decided he wasn't fit to be a pastor if he had kids like that

That's incorrect, they were mixing the message and the messenger.

[Quix]

Was a missionary in Asia for 15 years.

[Cronos]

The works don't save you, but if you really love God you will want to do His will.

For me, personally, that is a loving God, a Christian God.

That does make a working relationship far more easier and the Church must work with the LCMS to combat the evils of secularism.

[Cronos]

your post bears repeating: "There are two opposite and equally erroneous positions about predestination that have always been rejected in authentic Catholic teaching. The first is that of the Pelagians. Pelagius taught that a person, by the exercise his free will, could obtain salvation unaided by grace. The obvious error here is that God has nothing to do with salvation.

Calvinists and Jansenists teach the second error. They teach that Christ died only for the elect; those predestined to salvation. The rest He predestined to eternal damnation by His own decree. Furthermore, they taught that if God predestined someone to eternal life, it is impossible that he should fall away. Likewise, one chosen for damnation has no choice in the matter, but will surely perish in hell. In short, the individual has nothing to do with his own salvation. "

Like the fine balance between Arianism and Nestorius.

[Cronos]

When I was still an Episcopalian and I was teasing a Cahtoic friend about the fercoiously awful hymnody in some of their parishes I said, "When we left, we took beauty with us." He said, "well, we want it back!"

That's true and with the re-entry of Anglo-Catholics, they are going to enrich The Church considerably and buttress conservatism.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I wonder if one reason they do not understand Mary's role is that they might be uncomfortable with the very notions of family and community.

No, that's not it.

Protestants are repelled by the superstitions and pagan rituals Rome finds so comforting. The desire to reject idolatry and cleave to Christ alone is a gift given by God to those He has saved from the false rituals of the papacy's decaying tyranny.

According to a Pew study, for every one Protestant who converts to Roman Catholicism four Roman Catholics convert to Protestantism.

As Christ gathers His sheep, progress.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Concerning prayer,

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. - Matthew 6:9

Amen! The best example of all.

[Cronos]

If you cannot define your terms, you cannot defend your argument.

That's not fair -- Mr R DID define his terms.

[Cronos]

unless he is a lawyer, in which case he probably deserves damnation on general principles.

I think you've hit a common agreement point among all Christians, nay among all humanity :)

[Cronos]

Yet God does. He seems to want us to participate. He not only invites us to, but commands us to. Why? Don’t know.

You're right -- HE does command us to participate and we don't know why and probably couldn't fathom why, either.

[Running On Empty]

I’m not speaking for NL here, but only for myself.

If RC seems offensive to some, it probably is because of its use contextually on this forum. I have read “RC” here on this forum in context with denigrating comments, so the expression has now become associated with an attitude of criticism and often contempt.

I live in a large family community of Catholics and in my large parish community and in both we refer to ourselves simply as Catholic.

Yes, Roman Catholic identifies us with the Latin/Roman rite, but when we are among ourselves we don’t commonly use that term.

Whereas on this forum, as I have said, “RC” is often used in posts that are intended to show opposition to us; it’s easy to see and discern the purpose as intended to point (negatively) to the hierarchial structure of our Church.

[Cronos]

Do you have a good Bible believing church nearby where your new found faith can be formed?

Yes, annalex, do you have a Catholic Church closeby?

[Cronos]

Wouldn't that just refer to someone who is Latin Rite?

Because we're not all Latin Rite. There are Maronites, Syro-Malabar, Chaldean Catholics etc.