[Alex Murphy]

....the Catholic Church teaches that Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible. The Holy See in 1983 reiterated the traditional position that Catholics who are Freemasons are in a state of grave sin and may not receive the sacraments - the Declaration on Masonic Associations was signed by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and makes it clear that local bishops cannot dispense from its provisions. There were two reasons for this document: first, the new Code of Canon Law, which came out at the same time, no longer mentioned Freemasonry by name in its list of organisations which Catholics are forbidden from joining; second, mistaken advice had been given in the late Seventies in Britain and America which suggested that Catholics could be Freemasons if local lodges were not anti-Catholic; the 1983 rescript corrected that advice. Consequently, Anglicans or others who are Freemasons wishing to become Catholics will have to discard their aprons: this may keep the numbers of potential converts down.

[massgopguy]

Three of the officers in the local lodge are also Knights of Columbus. Besides I wear a Knights of Columbus apron when we make our Pancake Breakfasts. Bacon, sausage, eggs, pancakes, hash browns, corned beef hash, toast, juice, coffee. $5. Children under twelve free. Go ahead. Try getting that at Bickford’s.

[livius]

Very interesting considerations. I think many people don’t realize that the option of coming back to Rome, while made as simple as possible for Anglicans, is going to require some serious analysis and soul-searching by them. They really will have to be quite honest about what they believe and quite thoroughly informed about what the Church teaches and believes, and then figure out where they can go from there.

That said, the British have always had a fondness for a sort of Pelagianism (Pelagius was from Britain, actually) which rejects original sin, believes that salvation is possible through one’s own means and that Jesus was basically just a “good example” for mankind. That’s what makes it possible for people to think they are simultaneously accepting Freemasonry and Christianity. Their version of Christianity is very naturalistic and Pelagianist, and differs very little from English Freemasonry except that it gives more preeminence to Jesus as a good example.

So they have a lot to think about before going any further, and I’m sure most of them (especially among the TAC) are aware of this.

[NewJerseyJoe]

ping

[Kansas58]

On the Masonic issue, our Catholic Church is simply wrong, but I have tried to obey, none the less.

Look at your arguments, and focus on those that liberals and anti-Catholics have used, against the Catholic faith.

“Exclusion of women???” Gosh, how many women Priests to we have? How many women are in the Knights of Columbus? How much time does the Knights require, away from our families?

Historically, the Catholic Church acted in cowardice, when the French King crushed the Knights Templar's, in order to get out of paying back a large national debt that France owed to the Knights. Our own Pope was complicit in that act of slander and libel and mass murder.

This is a HISTORICAL fact!

Then, some of the lore of the Masons seems to indicate that their roots might trace back to that “Friday the 13th” travesty.

The Masonic youth group, “Demolay” was founded on the name of a Templar leader.

The Catholic Church, being embarrassed at our own history, attempted to muzzle critics and rewrite history, or simply send valid history down the “memory hole” -—

Yes, during the Reformation, there were countless acts of brutality against Catholics, committed by “Reformers” -— but instead of making clear, through our “ecumenical dialog” that religious intolerance, by Catholics towards Protestants, or by Protestants towards Catholics, was WRONG, our Catholic Church, again, did a poor job of educating the flock. Also, by keeping Catholics OUT of the Masons, there are few, within the Masonic lodges, who understand OUR side of the story!

Yes, there are some Masons with some goofy views. So what?

It should also be pointed out that Catholic leaders, in America, bear much guilt for passing on ridiculous rumors and false allegations against the Masons, during a few national scandals that rocked the American Masonic Lodges. This was done for self-serving purposes, to protect their power, to keep parishes united, to hold on to all of the charitable contributions and activities of the flock, to keep the faithful from hearing any of the Catholic sins, of the past, and to keep the flock ignorant of history. It amazes me, often, that those Catholics who go off about Masons, especially our Priests and Bishops, spend little time addressing another Papal directive:

“It is impossible, at the same time, to be a sincere Catholic and a true socialist!” I have not joined the Masons, as I try to be obedient. However, I have several Masonic friends, and they are as Christian as any other Christian I have ever met.

[the long march]

Just wow. Is this the 21st century?

[TheThirdRuffian]

Gee, where to begin?

"In the first place, Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion."

Freemasonry is not a religion. It's a fraternity.

"Its rituals and constitutions present the member as a man who is able to advance towards enlightenment through his own efforts - a good parable of this is the depictions of the trials of Tamino in Mozart's opera The Magic Flute."

"Engligtenment" in the secular, good citizen, approach, sure. Basically, Boys Scouts for grown ups. "Englightenment" in the idea of "works" vs. "faith" etc. just completely false.

"The Mason can earn his salvation through rites of initiation and the activities of the lodge (including charitable giving); it is thus, in a way, the perfect religion for the "self-made", middle-class professional man."

That's just completely ficticious. There is nothing about "salavation" taught or believed by the fraternity. Or even germaine.

"Second, the prayers in its rituals specifically exclude reference to Our Lord."

In the Blue Lodge, this is true, as, like the Boy Scouts, is a fraternal organization open to anyone who confesses belief in the One God of the Universe, and thus generally open to Christians, Jews, and theoretically Muslims.

That said, all of its symbols draw heavily on Christian and Jewish traditions, so anyone who is not a Christian or a Jew would find it meaningless.

The York Rite of Masonry (Templars) is expressly Christian-only.

"In order to encompass adherents of other faiths the Saviour of the world is simply removed and set aside: he is not important. How can any Christian go along with this?"

I really don't have a problem being in a fraternity with Jews. I understand some of the Mel Gibson mindset might have problems with Jews, but I don't.

"Third, the oaths required in the initiation rites require the new Mason to promise to keep secret the organisation's rituals, even though he does not at that point know what they are."

Kind of. An initiant can quite at any time, and each step is carefully explained. Moreover, this is moot, as the whole thing is now available at Barnes & Noble.

"In addition, we could cite the reactionary world view espoused in the rituals, supportive of the status quo and urging members to "keep to their station" in society."

No idea what he is talking about. Masons are encouraged to be good citizens, that is true. Didn't know that was a bad thing.

"This, coupled with the make-up of lodges and the mechanisms of social control identified in exposés written in the Eighties"

I guess this means he thinks masons rule the world. News to me.

"reveal the movement as being somewhat at odds with the social teaching of the Catholic Church and our witness for justice and peace in the world."

This is just nutty and needs no response.

"The 'preferential option for the poor' would not find a place in the lodge."

This is just not correct. The very purpose of the fraternity is to organize men to do good works in the community and for fellow masons. Most typically, this involves either direct charatable work or fundraising.

Indeed, one of the "secret" oaths taken is to take care of poor masons and their widows and orphans.

"One could also point to the exclusion of women from lodge"

OK, that's funny coming from a priest. I guess the Knights of Columbus is for women, Catholic schools must be co-ed, and a chick can be the pope.

In seriousness, it's a fraternity. Sometimes, it's just better to seperate the sexes, and there is a parallel sorority for women, known as the "Easter Star" (which is Jesus Christ, by the way).

"membership and the strain placed on many marriages by the commitments demanded of Freemasons"

Yeah, those guys who came over and mowed my lawn when my back was out really put a strain on our marriage.

"infidelity and adultery seem often to be viewed with some indulgence."

LOL. Not permitting "libertines" is part of the fraternity. Anyone messing around would likely be shown the door.

NOW, here are the real reasons why there are conflicts between Roman Catholics and Masonry:

1. The pope said so. Rules are rules. If you are a Roman Catholic, follow the rules of the Roman Catholic Church. It's not a cafeteria.

2. Now, the reason the "pope said so" are historical, and, probably moot. Most notably, Freemason fraternity grew up mostly in Protestant countries that had various beefs back-and-forth with the RCC.

3. The deeper reason why the fraternity ended up in said protestant countries are two historical accidents, but both involved hostility with the Roman Catholic Church:

(A) the Knights Templar Navy fled to Scotland which was bucking the Roman Catholic Church at the time and

(B) the brick masons/builders trade unions got in lots of fights with the RCC and nobles over $$$$. They also had nifty clubhouses, being that they were builders.

By chance: groups (A) and (B) ended up together and (in part, united by a dislike of the RCC) grew into a social fraternity in and around Scotland over a couple hundred years.

Now, accepting rules-are-rules, should Roman Catholics seek to convince the aurthorities they are wrong?

In my opinion, Yes. Religiously, there is not single conflict between the modern fraternity and the Roman Catholic Church. The slanders repeated here are just so much nonsense, jinned up out of the old protestant-Roman Catholic distrust and dislike.

[markomalley]

Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state, grade, condition, order, dignity or pre-eminence, whether clerical or lay, secular or regular, even those who are entitled to specific and individual mention, that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume to enter, propagate or support these aforesaid societies of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or however else they are called, or to receive them in their houses or dwellings or to hide them, be enrolled among them, joined to them, be present with them, give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support either openly or in secret, directly or indirectly, on their own or through others; nor are they to urge others or tell them, incite or persuade them to be enrolled in such societies or to be counted among their number, or to be present or to assist them in any way; but they must stay completely clear of such Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles, under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required, and from which no one can obtain the benefit of absolution, other than at the hour of death, except through Ourselves or the Roman Pontiff of the time.

Pope Clement XII, Papal Bull In Eminenti, 1738

See also,

• Pope Benedict XIV, Apostolic Constitution Providas Romanorum, 1751
• Pope Pius VII, Apostolic Constitution Ecclesiam a Jesu Christo, 1821
• Pope Leo XII, Apostolic Constitution Quo Graviora, 1826
• Pope Pius VIII, Encyclical Traditi Humilitati, 1829
• Pope Gregory XVI, Encyclical Mirari Vos, 1832
• Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Qui Pluribus, 1846
• Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Humanum Genus, 1884
• Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Dall'alto Dell'apostolico Seggio, 1890
• Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Custodi Di Quella Fede, 1892
• Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Inimica Vis, 1892
• Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Masonic Associations, 1983

The Holy See has been in opposition to Freemasonry since pretty close to the earliest establishment of speculative masonry in 1717. It hasn't changed and there is no way it will ever change (now to the degree that it is taught and enforced...well, that's a different issue altogether)

From your article:

Anglicans or others who are Freemasons wishing to become Catholics will have to discard their aprons: this may keep the numbers of potential converts down.

Yup, that is pretty much true.

[Salvation]

Sandra Miesel explains why Catholics can't be Masons

[narses]

+

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Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment

Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”

[Melian]

Where’s Fred, Barney and the Grand Poobah?

[Redleg Duke]

"Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion."

At this point, I realized this gentleman hasn't a clue.

As a Mason for the past 37 years, I have always been encouraged to be active in my own religion. It is about power and control...Roman Catholic...Wisconsin Synod Lutheran...whatever...it is about the church "owning you" body and soul.

My soul belongs to God Almighty, who gave it to me at the moment of conception! "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!"

And I will do so, wearing an apron if I wish, but still beholding to God!

[Smelly_Fed]

It subsequently came to light that nearly all the male members of his Parochial Church Council....
I can't help but chuckle that you're already employing Masonic colloquialisms before you even reach the term "on the square"

Why is all this a problem? The reason is that the Catholic Church teaches that Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible.
Of course the Catholic Church sees Freemasons as incompatible with Catholicism. Catholicism has it's own fraternity, started by jealous Catholics who saw their men donating their time and money somewhere else. There's an old expression that says "Always follow the money" - nowhere is that more true than with the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church alleges all sorts of ridiculous accusations against freemasonry simply because they view it as competition for income.

There are no dragons here. Freemasonry is not a religion and it doesn't provide a path for salvation. It takes good moral men, and teaches them valuable moral lessons to make them better moral men. There is no path to spiritual enlightenment - the craft encourages you to seek that in your own local church and repeatedly states that Masonry is not a substitute for the edification of the saints.

The oaths or obligations are allegorical only. They are not truly secretive - they are posted all over the net. It's the willingness of a man to be a man of his word. To keep the confidence of a friend - these are the kind of men that Masonry "builds" through its moral lessons.

Perhaps if the Catholic Church did a better job of teaching this lesson, the need for secular fraternities would lesson?

The reasons for our teaching, expounded in teaching from many popes since the 18th century, are theological.
Again, follow the money. "Theological" is a smokescreen for "we're losing money".

In the first place, Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion.
No, it isn't.

Its rituals and constitutions present the member as a man who is able to advance towards enlightenment through his own efforts
No, they dont.

The Mason can earn his salvation through rites of initiation and the activities of the lodge (including charitable giving)
No, he can't.

It is totally at odds with the Christian vision, in which we need God's grace, through the death and resurrection of Our Lord, to grow in holiness.
If any of what you had suggested above was actually true, you might have a point. But you are categorically wrong on every point so your conclusion is also vastly in error.

Second, the prayers in its rituals specifically exclude reference to Our Lord. They are often prayers of Christian origin which have been vandalised.
The prayers offered in a lot of public and private ceremonies also exclude reference to the Lord. When I played football, there were prayers offered before the game by a Coach or community member. Did that make every boy in the lockerroom a member in the Church of Friday Night Football because he bowed his head?

When the President of the US is sworn in to office, a generic prayer is offered. Does that destroy the credibility of every Christian on the mall who also bows his head in reverence?

In order to encompass adherents of other faiths the Saviour of the world is simply removed and set aside: he is not important. How can any Christian go along with this?
The same way we belong to Country Clubs, the Rotary, Trade Organizations and the Beer of the Month Club. None of them are substitutes for religion and were never intended to be.

Third, the oaths required in the initiation rites require the new Mason to promise to keep secret the organisation's rituals, even though he does not at that point know what they are.
How can you tell lies like this and expect us to take you seriously in relation to your faith? Ignorance is no excuse to just make stuff up. Newly obligated brothers know EXACTLY what they are obligating yourself to. They can withdraw at any point and at any stage in the degree work. They are given study work after each degree so they can better prepare themselves for the next.

These oaths are what Christian moral theologians call "vain" - they are not acceptable and cannot bind the person making them, even if they are done in the name of God. This is the problem with the oaths, not (as is sometimes claimed) the dire penalties which used to be referred to in the rituals.
It's an obligation, not an oath and it obligates masons only to an extent. It does not apply if conflicts with their faith, family or vocation.

It is important that Catholics rest their challenge to Freemasonry on the clear theological arguments
I agree, let me know when you have some clear theological arguments.

[al_c]

Good Catholics should not wear aprons

I wouldn't dare work another KofC BBQ w/o one!!! ;o)

[Candor7]

Not only that, Freemasons hand out free birth control pills and condoms.( sarc.)

Katlics UnTie ! The Templars are back!

[meadsjn]

Good Catholics would quit being Catholics, and become free thinking individuals, who speak for themselves, read for themselves, and pray for themselves.

The same is true for good Baptists, good Mormons, good Quakers, good Methodists, etc., etc., etc.

Thomas Jefferson said it best, "I have sworn upon the alter of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

As for the Catholic church, there has never been any government so horrible, with which they would not share power to maintain control over the people, to keep them poor, ignorant, and enslaved.

[TradicalRC]

The article does not go into some of the history of antipathy between the two groups. The French Revolution was certainly a product of the “Free Thinking” masons and there is that bizarre anecdote of the Masonic coffinjacking at Pius the IX’s funeral where they tossed his casket into the Tiber.

[B-Chan]

IAOM

[MAK1179]

First of all Alex, you stole 3/4 of your post from Father Ashley Beck...at least you modified the title of your post a bit from his original ridiculous article. http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=34763

Additionally - his article is full of garbage and lies of what he WISHES to believe about the fraternity. Below is my response that I wrote to him personally and have posted elsewhere about the web. For the record, I am a practicing catholic...always have been, didn't do my confirmation today (coincidently) BY the Bishop while I was wearing my Masonic ring.

I found this article to be somewhat harsh with non-factual points and statements, in my eyes, not befitting someone representing the Church. As a practicing Catholic and Freemason I am dismayed by the information here where Father Beck conveys things regarding the Fraternity that just aren't true and yet used as condemnation of my membership.

First of all, the Grand Orient of Freemasons are not part of the global Free and Accepted Masons nor recognized as such in anyway. Anything pertaining to them is inconsequential.

“The reasons for our teaching, expounded in teaching from many popes since the 18th century, are theological. In the first place, Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion. Its rituals and constitutions present the member as a man who is able to advance towards enlightenment through his own efforts “
This is incorrect, and a well known falsehood told about the fraternity. Freemasonry is not a religion but welcomes any man OF any religion. We endeavor to DO good works but in NO WAY promise salvation through them or the lodge. We are to use our faith as a guide to heaven. I, as a Catholic seek entry through Jesus Christ the Son given to us by God the Father by way of the Holy Spirit. A brother in the fraternity of a different religion may have other beliefs in his path to salvation but we accept and respect each other’s belief and work together to help each other and the community around us despite these differences in faith.

“Second, the prayers in its rituals specifically exclude reference to Our Lord. They are often prayers of Christian origin which have been vandalised.” (it's vandalized by the way).
This is, in part, True. As noted, we are men of many faiths and therefore do not specifically name Jesus in Lodge nor would someone of another name their deity or savior by name. We instead use a universal name of God, or the Grand Architect that we may still open and close our Lodge and workings in the name of Him. Make no mistake, our prayers go to whom we Believe. Mine, as noted above go to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Vandalized is a terrible word to use here as it's untrue. No prayers are altered in anyway from the Book.

“Third, the oaths required in the initiation rites require the new Mason to promise to keep secret the organisation’s rituals, even though he does not at that point know what they are. These oaths are what Christian moral theologians call “vain” - they are not acceptable and cannot bind the person making them, even if they are done in the name of God. This is the problem with the oaths, not (as is sometimes claimed) the dire penalties which used to be referred to in the rituals” (it's organization's by the way)
The oaths are no different than those made in any other organization, including the Knights of Columbus (totally acceptable to the Church), government, nor to individuals everyone makes to each other throughout their lives.

“The “preferential option for the poor” would not find a place in the lodge. One could also point to the exclusion of women from lodge membership and the strain placed on many marriages by the commitments demanded of Freemasons: in spite of claiming to be a “system of morality” infidelity and adultery seem often to be viewed with some indulgence.”

First of all, men from all walks of life are admitted regardless of financial background. The exclusion of women is simple. It's a FRATERNITY. The Knights of Columbus don't accept women in either I believe. The Fraternity of Freemasonry explicitly informs it's members their family, job and faith come first. The claims of infidelity and adultery prevalence are an outright lie and I am ashamed for Father Beck's for making such a statement.

“It is important that Catholics rest their challenge to Freemasonry on the clear theological arguments which I have advanced and that we are well-informed about the subject: “
This is very true however, Father Beck has failed in practicing this very statement.

In closing, this entire article is non-factual and biased to what the Father has chosen to believe of the Fraternity. I save “faith” for God, when it comes tangible matters such as this I reserve fact for my judgments.

[RadiationRomeo]

As you progress thru the York Rite of Freemasonry you ‘learn’ that Yahweh, the Egyptian Ra, and the Caanite Baal are the one and same god; which sounds like a satanic trinity. And you can’t tell me otherwide, I went thru all the normal ranks of the York and Scottish Rites. I drank the wine out of the plastic skull and took all the oaths. So I guess I will be murdered and buried between high and low tide.

[verga]

A friends of mines father was told by the pastor of his local Catholic Church that it was no longer "frowned upon."

I tired to meet with pastor to show him the documentation and he refused. I sent the information to the Bishop and nothing was done.