Posted on 05/18/2009 12:19:54 PM PDT by TaraP
The History Channel has been running an unusual 14-second ad that simply says:
"May 25, 2009. A Global Event. This Changes Everything."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Eg7ICKJrhg
Maybe this? ISBN:9780316070089 Library Bound #: 619216
Format: Hardcover
Price: $28.99 Pub Date: May 2009
Lying inside a high security vault, deep within the heart of one of the world’s leading museums, is a discovery that will change textbooks, change science, and change how we understand the human race.
The author of Untitled has been given exclusive access to all of the research and the team of top scientists who have been validating the discovery, the announcement of which will send shock waves around the world.
The discovery will be announced at a major press conference followed by a media blitz and a documentary that will air on the History Channel following the press conference.
More deception?
[... Right? ...]
Wrong! Your demand to define “forevermore” is Trompe Noir.
You accuse me of using code. Perhaps it is, but my translator is the
Holy Spirit. Can you make the same claim?
The idea — “the church is now Israel” — is one of those doctrines of demons, specifically designed to ignore God’s clear word and to elevate the church above its position (look at what Paul said about that in Romans, as I included above).
Remember, Satan tried to elevate himself above his position in pride, and it was his downfall. Likewise, there are those who try to elevate their “position” higher than God says it is — and that leads to their preaching of the doctrines off demons and their own downfall.
It’s the same old “doctrines of demons” under the designation of “Replacement Theology”.
Any theology which seeks to replace Israel as a nation before God, forevermore, is nothing more than doctrines of demons — which is what is being perpetrated here.
Jeremiah 31:36 “If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the Lord, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever.”
The idea is — by these who create these “doctrines of demons” is that they don’t want to believe what God has clearly told them, so they invent these doctrines that definitely do come from the pit of Hell, in trying to destroy Israel, the nation that God says will be before him forever.
If someone is wondering how long “forever” is — well, look at what God said about those ordinances departing from him... LOL... (that should give you an idea...).
The Error Of Replacement Theology
by Clarence H. Wagner, Jr.
Perhaps you have heard of the term Replacement Theology. However, if you look it up in a dictionary of Church history, you will not find it listed as a systematic study. Rather, it is a doctrinal teaching that originated in the early Church. It became the fertile soil from which Christian anti-Semitism grew and has infected the Church for nearly 1,900 years.
What Is Replacement Theology?
Replacement Theology was introduced to the Church shortly after Gentile leadership took over from Jewish leadership. What are its premises?
1. Israel (the Jewish people and the land) has been replaced by the Christian Church in the purposes of God, or, more precisely, the Church is the historic continuation of Israel to the exclusion of the former.
2. The Jewish people are now no longer a “chosen people.” In fact, they are no different from any other group, such as the English, Spanish, or Africans.
3. Apart from repentance, the new birth, and incorporation into the Church, the Jewish people have no future, no hope, and no calling in the plan of God. The same is true for every other nation and group.
4. Since Pentecost of Acts 2, the term “Israel,” as found in the Bible, now refers to the Church.
5. The promises, covenants and blessings ascribed to Israel in the Bible have been taken away from the Jews and given to the Church, which has superseded them. However, the Jews are subject to the curses found in the Bible, as a result of their rejection of Christ.
How Do Replacement Theologians Argue Their Case? They Say:
1. To be a son of Abraham is to have faith in Jesus Christ. For them, Galatians 3:29 shows that sonship to Abraham is seen only in spiritual, not national terms: “And if you be Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Rebuttal: While this is a wonderful inclusionary promise for Gentiles, this verse does not exclude the Jewish people from their original covenant, promise and blessing as the natural seed of Abraham. This verse simply joins us Gentile Christians to what God had already started with Israel.
2. The promise of the land of Canaan to Abraham was only a “starter.” The real Promised Land is the whole world. They use Romans 4:13 to claim it will be the Church that inherits the world, not Israel. “For the promise that he should be the heir of the world was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.”
Rebuttal: Where does this verse exclude Abraham and His natural progeny, the Jews? It simply says that through the law, they would not inherit the world, but this would be acquired through faith. This is also true of the Church.
3. The nation of Israel was only the seed of the future Church, which would arise and incorporate people of all nations (Mal. 1:11): “For from the rising of the sun, even unto the going down of the same, My Name shall be great among the nations, and in every place, incense shall be offered to My Name, and a pure offering for My Name shall be great among the nations, says the Lord of Hosts.”
Rebuttal: This is great, and shows that the Jewish people and Israel fulfilled one of their callings to be “a light to the nations,” so that God’s Word has gone around the world. It does not suggest God’s dealing with Israel was negated because His Name spread around the world.
4. Jesus taught that the Jews would lose their spiritual privileges, and be replaced by another people (Matt. 21:43): “Therefore I am saying to you, ‘The kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it.’”
Rebuttal: In this passage, Jesus was talking about the priests and Pharisees, who failed as leaders of the people. This passage is not talking about the Jewish people or nation of Israel. See Teaching Letter #770008, “Did God Break His Covenant With the Jews?”
5. A true Jew is anyone born of the Spirit, whether he is racially Gentile or Jewish (Rom. 2:28-29): “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
Rebuttal: This argument does not support the notion that the Church replaced Israel. Rather, it simply reinforces what had been said throughout the Hebrew Scriptures [the Old Testament], and it certainly qualifies the spiritual qualifications for Jews or anyone who professes to be a follower of the God of Israel.
6. Paul shows that the Church is really the same “olive tree” as was Israel, and the Church is now the tree. Therefore, to distinguish between Israel and the Church is, strictly speaking, false. Indeed, people of Jewish origin need to be grafted back into the Church (Rom 11:17-23).
Rebuttal: This claim is the most outrageous because this passage clearly shows that we Gentiles are the “wild olive branches,” who get our life from being grafted into the olive tree. The tree represents the covenants, promises and hopes of Israel (Eph. 2:12), rooted in the Messiah and fed by the sap, which represents the Holy Spirit, giving life to the Jews (the “natural branches”) and Gentile alike. We Gentiles are told to remember that the olive tree holds us up and NOT to be arrogant or boast against the “natural branches” because they can be grafted in again. The olive tree is NOT the Church. We are simply grafted into God’s plan that preceded us for over 2,000 years.
7. All the promises made to Israel in the Old Testament, unless they were historically fulfilled before the coming of Jesus Christ, are now the property of the Christian Church. These promises should not be interpreted literally or carnally, but spiritually and symbolically, so that references to Israel, Jerusalem, Zion and the Temple, when they are prophetic, really refer to the Church (II Cor. 1:20). “For all the promises of God in Him (Jesus) are Yea, and in Him, Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” Therefore, they teach that the New Testament needs to be taught figuratively, not literally.
Rebuttal: Later, in this Teaching Letter, we will look at the fact that the New Testament references to Israel clearly pertain to Israel, not the Church. Therefore, no promise to Israel and the Jewish people in the Bible is figurative, nor can they be relegated to the Church alone. The promises and covenants are literal, many of them are everlasting, and we Christians can participate in them as part of our rebirth, not in that we took them over to the exclusion of Israel. The New Testament speaks of the Church’s relationship to Israel and her covenants as being “grafted in” (Rom. 11:17), “brought near” (Eph. 2:13), “Abraham’s offspring (by faith)” (Rom. 4:16), and “partakers” (Rom. 15:27), NOT as usurpers of the covenant and a replacer of physical Israel. We Gentile Christians joined into what God had been doing in Israel, and God did not break His covenant promises with Israel (Rom. 11:29).
—
to read on down the information, go to ...
http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm
Now we can see what the “apostasy” of the church is all about, in teaching these doctrines of demons, contrary to the direct Word of God in Scripture.
Jo... God has given us the definition of “forever”...
Jeremiah 31:35-36
35 Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The Lord of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the Lord, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever.”
“Forever” means for God, as long as He maintains those ordinances that He’s stated...
When you see them no longer maintained, then you may consider the promise of God to Israel finished...
—
It’s pretty clear how long this “forever” is — that God is talking about... (as if we really needed some definition...LOL...). Only those *blinded* by those evil doctrines can miss that...
John 12:44-48Satan is not responsible for our sin... we are. We, not Satan, will be judged for our deeds.
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Revelation 20:11-13
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Say Jo..., one of the things I would keep in mind, here — is that discussing *defective theologies* from those who also preach “doctrines of demons” — is really fruitless.
Once someone has gone over to the “dark side” and preaches the doctrines of demons in which God has nothing to do with the nation of Israel, any longer — then they are in the camp of demons.
And once someone is in the camp of the demons, then discussing theology with demons is sort of like Jesus discussing it with Satan... Satan never became saved, did he? LOL...
So, I can see that these theologies that elevate the church above the position that God gave it, and tries to take away the very being and existence of the nation of Israel from being a nation before God forever — is simply trying to convert demons... why bother?
Let the demons be the demons they want to be...
I would talk to Christians and leave the evil theologies alone...
But, it’s up to you...
Wiping dust from my feet.
You have good scriptural support for that..., as we can see here, when people reject the Word of God and accept, instead the doctrines of demons, and refuse to repent of their evil ways and teachings...
Acts 13
50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region.
51 But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium.
52 And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
—
Acts 18
5 When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ.
6 But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, “Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”
—
Luke 9
4 Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart.
5 And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them.”
—
Luke 10
10 But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say,
11 ’The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.’
12 But I say to you that it will be more tolerable in that Day for Sodom than for that city.
—
Mark 6
10 Also He said to them, “In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place.
11 And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”
12 So they went out and preached that people should repent.
13 And they cast out many demons, and anointed with oil many who were sick, and healed them.
—
Matthew 10
12 And when you go into a household, greet it.
13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!
What you call a “doctrine of demons” is simply you seeing things though the misshapen, clouded glasses of dispensationalism.This last line brought a smile to my face, seeing as I was compared to Joseph Smith on this thread.
Interesting comparison, seeing as how both systems appeared about the same time, in the early 19th century bloom of heterodoxies, heresies and cults.
You cannot explain a simple concept from the Bible yet claim the Holy Spirit is your translator. Curious. He must be on a break.
Your responses are evasive. I suspect you are just avoiding the hard questions and issues, preferring to follow the teachings of men.
>Do you believe in a 1000 year reign of Christ on earth?
>
>That is not in the Bible. It is a teaching of
>premillennialism.
First, the Millennium is most certainly in the Bible. It is clearly talked about in Revelation 20. One should note that the scenes of Revelation 20 are mentioned after the scenes of Revelation 19. I will concede that one doesn’t have to believe that the book of Revelation is in time order, but I don’t think I should be called a “crank” for assuming it, myself. In Revelation 19 we find the rider on the white horse coming to do battle with the beast. This is usually accepted as Christ returning to earth.
Note that Revelation 20:1 is from the viewpoint of someone who is at least not in Heaven and therefore, assumed by us to be on earth. We presume that the scenes of thrones and the act of binding of Satan for 1000 years is also a scene which plays out on earth. [One of you stated that Satan was bound at the cross, but they didn’t bother to cite any verses and that assertion doesn’t seem to hold up to the scenes here.]
I reiterate my question suggested by Rev 20:3, which most of you have bypassed: Do you observe a world full of nations which “are deceived” or “are deceived no more”?
I hold that it is quite reasonable to believe that the scenes depicted by Revelation 20 follow in time the events of Revelation 19. I further hold that we are told point blank that the writer saw an angel coming down from Heaven with the keys to the bottomless pit.
Why would the speaker refer to people “coming alive” if they had merely been transported to Heaven?
How’s that thousand years working out for you? It seems to me to have been closer to 2000 years since the cross?
In order to believe that we are currently in the Millennium, you have to decide that the book of Revelation is not in sequential time order, you have to decide that God doesn’t mean 1000 years when he says 1000 years, and you have to play “fast and loose” with the viewpoint of the writer, John.
How did islam rise and what were those verses that mohamed said in a trance that were not included in the koran. Even muslims recognize they were "satanic", but if he's bound how did those verses come out of mohammed's mouth?
You're first paragraph is so moving I had to reply before reading the rest of your post.
I am deeply moved and truly feel your pain and anguish. I have suffered the same fate numerous times, especially on those rare occasions we disagree. My deeply moving posts that will forever change your mind just disappear. I think it's the devil's work, but I know you disagree since he's bound and can't do anything.
Would you include Saudia Arabia in that group?
I understand your view of islam as a creation of man's sin nature with no outside influence. I think there are too many similarities between their awaited messiah and our Antichrist for that to be the case.
Also, my understanding in the amillenial thinking is that Christianity continues to grow until the entire Earth is Christian. However, we are seeing the opposite occur. Europe and Russia are largely Christian in name only. Sub-Sahara Africa is seeing some growth, but the muslims are growing faster there. In our country we are seeing secularism advance every year.
Looking at the demographic trends I can't help but say Christianity is not growing.
Yet the Son of Man came to us as a Jew. His disciples were Jewish. Why not come as an Egyptian.
Also, every time they repented God forgave them. When they realize that Jesus is the Messiah they will be forgiven again.
[... When Israel realizes Jesus is Messiah they will be forgiven again...]
You’re doing great. Keep slugging!
INDEED.
GOD IS GOD AND ALWAYS WILL BE GOD.
And HE doesn’t NEED us, per se, for anything.
He chose us to be His Friends and His kids.
Many excellent points in your post.
Though it’s a bit like mine . . . going on through many many points.
Sometimes, contrary to my habit, it may be more effective to break them up into segments.
Feel free to remind me . . . I do the same thing as you 98% or so of the time. LOL.
This paragraph:
Well..., I would think it would be clear to any *unbiased reader* (that is, unbiased from “doctrines of demons” more specifically) that the gospel has not been preached “in all the world as a witness to all the nations” — either back then or even now.
is a special one . . . as a missionary . . .
I believe the projected completion time is now within 12 years.
Particularly using the wind up MP3 players and the oral Scriptures for those people groups without written languages and/or high illiteracy rates.
More funding could hasten the time to completion.
I think this is a MAJOR MILE POST that the preterists, amils and post mils have absolutely no logical nor Biblical way to refute it as a clear END TIMES marker.
Of course, neither Biblical facts nor historical facts nor logic seems to phase such anyway . . . but it is worth noting that there’s no way of their logically squirming, rubber Bibling, rubber history-ing out of that marker.
Hope you don’t mind being included.
Your thoughts are lucid and mature.
= = =
INDEED.
SATAN BOUND? NOT YET!
NOT ACCORDING TO THE OLD
AND THE NEW TESTAMENT.
The enemy of God travels the earth “to and fro”.
Job 1:7
Satan walks about like a roaring lion seeking to devour someone.
1Peter 5:8
Satan is called the “prince of the power of the air”.
Ephesians 2:2.
He is called the “ruler of this world”.
John 12:31.
These titles signify his capabilities - that in some way
he (for now) rules over the world and the people in it.
More good points.
I like this:
There were, by the way, people who taught that Israel would be in the land, as a nation, in that future time, even back in the 1800s. They were saying, “I don’t know how it’s going to happen, but since God said it will be that way, it will happen!” They “believed God” even before “seeing” God do His work.
And now..., after seeing God do His work, there are those who *still do not believe God* (and call themselves “Christians”... LOL...).
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