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Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little?
1 posted on 04/04/2009 3:29:51 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

Former Catholic, born again fundamentalist Baptist ping


2 posted on 04/04/2009 3:32:45 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Secularized Catholics are better at being protestants than protestants are evidently.


3 posted on 04/04/2009 3:34:39 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("From hell's heart I stab at thee... I spit my last breath at thee." ~ Khan Noonien Singh)
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To: Alex Murphy

Navel-gazing dinglebob. (The author, I mean.)


4 posted on 04/04/2009 3:37:07 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." ~Sam Brown)
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To: Alex Murphy

When you can repeat a few words or some such, and believe yourself absolved, it’s apparently perceived to be of little consequence.


8 posted on 04/04/2009 3:39:45 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Alex Murphy

I think there are several considerations. First of all is the fact that for 40 years, since Vatican II, Catholics have been allowed and sometimes actively taught to ignore the teachings of the Church. Only now, under BXVI, is this horrible era being brought to an end.

In addition, there’s no such thing as “The Protestant Church.” That is, there are lots of different Protestant churches, some of them more liberal, some of them less liberal. Since the very liberal ones are down to about five elderly members now (like the liberal Catholic parishes), the more alive Protestant churches, whatever their specific denomination, will have more dedicated members who have actually made a choice to be there.

Finally, there’s the fact that many Catholics do not leave the Church when they cease to agree with its moral or other teachings. They are cultural products and they just keep going because that’s what they do. On the other hand, Protestants who have made the effort to find an orthodox Protestant church will be more committed because they have actually made the effort in the first place, rather than coasting into it.

What you are seeing with Obama’s attack on the Church right now, btw, is an attempt to get the lousy, coast-along, “dissenting Catholic” group into official power in the Church. It’s not going to work, but he’s going to make it very hard for the good Catholics.


9 posted on 04/04/2009 3:42:32 PM PDT by livius
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To: Alex Murphy

I’m still trying to figure out how anybody who claims Christ, be they Catholic, Baptist, Amish or whatever, could vote for 0bama, the most pro baby death politician of all times.

Yet, many of them did.


10 posted on 04/04/2009 3:43:39 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Selah)
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To: Alex Murphy

I think the dichotomy of Catholic vs. Protestant in this instance is a false one. Even among Protestants, there will be great differences regarding acceptance of this behavior (abortion, premarital sex, homosexuality, stem cell research, children outside marriage, gambling, divorce) between denominations. Probably greater thhan what this poll described.

For example, Episcopalians, ELCA Lutherans, UCC, etc, are quite probably more likely to sanction this behavior than are Traditional Anglicans, LCMS Lutherans, some Baptist Groups, and non-denominational “born again” Christians are.

Another problem I see, regarding the rearing of children, is far too many Christians leave the responsibility of teaching spiritual matters and values of the their children to the “church” rather than themselves. Considering the liberal infiltration of so many seminaries, it would not be surprising that the younger generation has adopted a more lax attitude toward morality.


14 posted on 04/04/2009 3:48:12 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian. "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Alex Murphy

It’s called Free Will. We were gifted by God with the ability to choose our behaviors. We can decide to conform to His Will, or not, and we assume the responsibility for it. That works for every human, churched or unchurched.


16 posted on 04/04/2009 4:11:41 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Alex Murphy

The RCC needs to put more emphasis on the primcy of God’s word rather than the primacy of Rome’s word.

In charity, too many Catholics haven’t seen the direct link from God to the words of the Bible, and the best way to fix that would be for Rome to recognize that God’s Word is supreme, without the filter of Roman authorities. I think the RC C would amplify their effectiveness if they were to do this.


18 posted on 04/04/2009 4:16:46 PM PDT by fishtank (Until the GOP repents of supporting Bush, people will think they're just "bashing 0bama".)
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To: Alex Murphy

Seems that I know a lot of cradle Catholics who reject the church’s teachings yet call themselves Catholic for whatever reason. And then you have political ‘cafeteria’ Catholics who have invented their own God to try and assuage their conscience. I think a lot of weaker Catholics use their example to help justify themselves. This is why Pope Benedict seems to be a blessing so far. He seems to stand for what is right.


20 posted on 04/04/2009 4:20:55 PM PDT by rom (Obama '12 slogan: Let's keep on hopin'!)
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To: Alex Murphy

For one, it’s a view and perception of sin...The Catholic church is far more liberal than Protestant churches when it condemns the totality of sinful practices...

Gambling is encouraged in the Catholic church...Not so in many Protestant churches...Drinking alcohol is encouraged in the Catholic church...The Protestants to a degree agree with God on this issues that alcohol creates all sorts of problems...

One of which is we all know that it’s far easier to talk a girl out of her clothes when she’s consumed copius amounts of the juice...

In the Catholic church, only heinious type sins are condemnable and require forgiveness...It’s not uncommon for a Catholic to g for a full year without confession and repentance...

Jesus hates ‘all’ sin...Many protestants confess their sins, big or small, daily, or hourly...


24 posted on 04/04/2009 4:33:04 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Alex Murphy

After Vatican II, many Ccatholic leaders wne nuts with liberalizing everything. As a result you see what we now have; an uneducated so-called Christian group who call them selves Catholic when, in fact, they are neither Catholic nor Christian. For othodox Catholics it has been a continual struggle to stand up for moral principles and for the basic belief in Jesus and his mercy.

The tide is turning, but unfortunately it has taken so long that severe damage has been wrought to millions of human souls who are more into the new-age religions than Christianity.


26 posted on 04/04/2009 4:48:37 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: Alex Murphy

All anyone has to do is read:

“The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved”
by St. Leonard of Port Maurice

http://olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

An example for those fallen away and disobedience.


27 posted on 04/04/2009 4:58:16 PM PDT by francky (Pro Life!)
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To: Alex Murphy; A.A. Cunningham; Coleus; Salvation

Note to my Catholic friends: Educate or cleanse your faith of the “ethnic Catholics” and “cafeteria Catholics,” to say nothing of milquetoast clergy.


30 posted on 04/04/2009 5:26:13 PM PDT by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: Alex Murphy
Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice...an issue which has bothered me since my college days, when I would watch my Catholic fraternity brothers routinely head out to get drunk and literally vandalize a bunch of autos and campus buildings - including especially the Christian Association - most Thursday nights (blowing off steam at the end of the week), go to confession and church over the weekend, and the next week repeat the same ritual. In practice it always seemed to me to have something to do with the act of confession, which conveniently allowed the believer to put his/her past behind them and move on to other "sins" - they didn't really have to carry the import of the morality they learned with them because they didn't have to endure the discomfort of violating the moral code for very long, confession and absolution being relatively conveniently available. Those whose sense of morality does not involve potentially clear and near-term relief from any moral transgressions seem more likely to take possible transgressions more seriously since they are likely to carry guilt for an indefinite period. I'm just saying......
36 posted on 04/04/2009 5:59:37 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Alex Murphy
I don't think it's all that remarkable, though it is sad. On another thread there is a fellow who calls humself a confirmed Catholic and yet he denies several de fide Catholic doctrines. Evidently more people who once were Catholics in good standing cling to the name while they abandon the thought and practice.
39 posted on 04/04/2009 6:12:28 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Alex Murphy

The Catholic private schools in my area (San Jose) seem very liberal to me. They have the Day of Silence for Gays, they were openly supporting Obama, they were against Prop 8.

If their schools are liberal, it means they are teaching those kids to be liberal.

I will say that I think the mainstream protestant churches have also gone very liberal. The Methodist church that I grew up with in the 70s is very different from the Methodist church of today. I’m not a Methodist anymore. It’s too liberal for me.


40 posted on 04/04/2009 6:14:55 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Alex Murphy

What, exactly, is an orthodox Protestant? There are so damn many sects.

Besides, isn’t the gist of Protestantism that you read the Bible, have a chat with Jesus, and make up your own mind about everything? How hard is it to stick to that?


42 posted on 04/04/2009 6:22:30 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Alex Murphy
Gallup poll: Catholics more unorthodox than Protestants

Duh.

43 posted on 04/04/2009 6:37:02 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayhi be`etzem hayom hazeh hotzi' HaShem 'et-Benei Yisra'el me'Eretz Mitzrayim `al-tziv'otam.)
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To: Alex Murphy
Perhaps Protestantism, built upon a veneration of the Bible, has been better able to resist the moral acids of secularism. Catholics claim that the living authority of the magisterium is better able to meet moral challenges, but this does not in fact seem to be the case. Roma locuta est, but very few Catholics are listening. When the Bible speaks, (and it does speak clearly on many issues) many Protestants listen.

Again, duh.

44 posted on 04/04/2009 6:41:41 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vayhi be`etzem hayom hazeh hotzi' HaShem 'et-Benei Yisra'el me'Eretz Mitzrayim `al-tziv'otam.)
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