Posted on 04/04/2009 3:29:51 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
This is a distressing new Gallup poll. It shows that churchgoing Catholics are far more likely to approve of moral behavior (sex between unmarried people, homosexuality, etc.) that their church deems immoral than are churchgoing Protestants.
This is a conundrum to me, one I thought about a lot when I was a Catholic, and troubled over. Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice.
Lee Podles, an orthodox Catholic, has some thoughts.
[I wish I didn't have to say this, but I do: this is not an anti-Catholic post, but rather intended to spark discussion on various reasons why this poll found the things it did. As someone who would like to raise my children to believe in what my faith teaches, I'd like to know what works, and what doesn't. Anybody who tries to derail the thread by making specious claims of anti-Catholicism will find their posts unpublished. So don't even start.]
Former Catholic, born again fundamentalist Baptist ping
Secularized Catholics are better at being protestants than protestants are evidently.
Navel-gazing dinglebob. (The author, I mean.)
Former “Bible thumping, evangelical fundamentalist” ping.
LOL... ridiculing absurdity I see. Good show.
It’s happening to all faiths. As society gets more depraved, the ooze of evil drips into all aspects of society. Even the most “devote” have felt the sting.
When you can repeat a few words or some such, and believe yourself absolved, it’s apparently perceived to be of little consequence.
I think there are several considerations. First of all is the fact that for 40 years, since Vatican II, Catholics have been allowed and sometimes actively taught to ignore the teachings of the Church. Only now, under BXVI, is this horrible era being brought to an end.
In addition, there’s no such thing as “The Protestant Church.” That is, there are lots of different Protestant churches, some of them more liberal, some of them less liberal. Since the very liberal ones are down to about five elderly members now (like the liberal Catholic parishes), the more alive Protestant churches, whatever their specific denomination, will have more dedicated members who have actually made a choice to be there.
Finally, there’s the fact that many Catholics do not leave the Church when they cease to agree with its moral or other teachings. They are cultural products and they just keep going because that’s what they do. On the other hand, Protestants who have made the effort to find an orthodox Protestant church will be more committed because they have actually made the effort in the first place, rather than coasting into it.
What you are seeing with Obama’s attack on the Church right now, btw, is an attempt to get the lousy, coast-along, “dissenting Catholic” group into official power in the Church. It’s not going to work, but he’s going to make it very hard for the good Catholics.
I’m still trying to figure out how anybody who claims Christ, be they Catholic, Baptist, Amish or whatever, could vote for 0bama, the most pro baby death politician of all times.
Yet, many of them did.
Finally, there’s the fact that many Catholics do not leave the Church when they cease to agree with its moral or other teachings. They are cultural products and they just keep going because that’s what they do. On the other hand, Protestants who have made the effort to find an orthodox Protestant church will be more committed because they have actually made the effort in the first place, rather than coasting into it.
An intelligent and well-spoken post as usual, livius. Thanks for pinging me to it.
Do the Amish cast votes? If so, how?
I think the dichotomy of Catholic vs. Protestant in this instance is a false one. Even among Protestants, there will be great differences regarding acceptance of this behavior (abortion, premarital sex, homosexuality, stem cell research, children outside marriage, gambling, divorce) between denominations. Probably greater thhan what this poll described.
For example, Episcopalians, ELCA Lutherans, UCC, etc, are quite probably more likely to sanction this behavior than are Traditional Anglicans, LCMS Lutherans, some Baptist Groups, and non-denominational “born again” Christians are.
Another problem I see, regarding the rearing of children, is far too many Christians leave the responsibility of teaching spiritual matters and values of the their children to the “church” rather than themselves. Considering the liberal infiltration of so many seminaries, it would not be surprising that the younger generation has adopted a more lax attitude toward morality.
They vote and from what I’ve read they vote as conservative as possible, I believe they voted for W in big numbers.
It’s called Free Will. We were gifted by God with the ability to choose our behaviors. We can decide to conform to His Will, or not, and we assume the responsibility for it. That works for every human, churched or unchurched.
This is neither a Catholic nor Protestant thing, but one where one follows Jesus Christ or you don’t. True believing Catholics and Protestants need to crack the Good Book open and teach from it. What we are seeing in Christendom today is carnal lukewarmedness and apostasy which is something that has plagued Christianity since the New Testament has been written. What Paul wrote in Phillippians 3:18-21 speaks perfectly to the moral mess we see today:
18For many live as enemies of the cross of Christ; I have often told you of them, and now I tell you even with tears. 19Their end is destruction; their god is the belly; and their glory is in their shame; their minds are set on earthly things. 20But our citizenship* is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. 21He will transform the body of our humiliation* so that it may be conformed to the body of his glory,* by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself.
The RCC needs to put more emphasis on the primcy of God’s word rather than the primacy of Rome’s word.
In charity, too many Catholics haven’t seen the direct link from God to the words of the Bible, and the best way to fix that would be for Rome to recognize that God’s Word is supreme, without the filter of Roman authorities. I think the RC C would amplify their effectiveness if they were to do this.
“Yes” there are Amish who do vote, there are many many different subsets of “Amish’.
As for the OP, it is odd, the practicing Catholics I know are decent people, they aren’t...centered? For lack of a better term their Faith doesn’t guide and instruct them.
Seems that I know a lot of cradle Catholics who reject the church’s teachings yet call themselves Catholic for whatever reason. And then you have political ‘cafeteria’ Catholics who have invented their own God to try and assuage their conscience. I think a lot of weaker Catholics use their example to help justify themselves. This is why Pope Benedict seems to be a blessing so far. He seems to stand for what is right.
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