Life On Gold Plates - (LDS) Open

http://lifeongoldplates.blogspot.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html ^ | August 14, 2008 | Richard Bushman

[greyfoxx39]

MORE condemnation of Christianity by mormon leaders:

 

"Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):

 

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
-    Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324


Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):

"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and    Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 266

"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men."
-    Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):

".the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was."
-    Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
-    Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

“... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.”
-    Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375

Prophet Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994):


"This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..."     
-    Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165

Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (1910 -  ):

“We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith's vision in which he was told all other religions were "abominations"], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We don’t criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.”

-    Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”
-    Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9

 

[DanielLongo]

We have been over this before. So here is your question (again):

What of the multiple wives of Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Gideon and so forth?

[restornu]

Well I believe as I stated before in God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ as spoken in all of the Standard works which all the scriptures atest to!

Philip. 1:
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ

[DanielLongo]

First of all, the Church does not claim this culture as its culture. It is the culture and people of the Book of Mormon. However, I personally may claim it as part of my culture, since my great grandmother was of a HaplogroupX tribe.

Your links go to prove my point further. To wit:

Thus far, haplogroup X has not been detected in numerous Asian/ Siberian populations analyzed by high-resolution restriction analysis or CR sequencing (table 3). Three (2.9%) of 103 Mongolians harbored both the 16223T and 16278T mutations, but they also contained the 110394 DdeI and 110397 AluI markers (Kolman et al. 1996), placing them in Asian superhaplogroup M (Ballinger et al. 1992) and excluding them from haplogroup X.

If you don't understand what this publication is saying, let me educate you in the most non-"erudite" manner I can.

The markers of what appeared to be HaplogroupX found in Mongolia among the Altains were actually introduced into the genetic pool during the time of the Khan. The mitochondrial markers are from the Slavic and Eastern European Caucasus regions. They do not bear the markers of the HaplogroupX found in America and the Near East and certainly not at the same frequency. This non-matching HaplogroupX is found at a rate of about 3% among the Altains alone (no other Asian population has it), while the matching HaplogroupX with matching subset 2 (as it varies from the European HaplogroupX subset 1) is found at a frequency of 26% among the present-day inhabitants of the region encompassing Israel.

[DanielLongo]

When would be a good time for a couple of our highly trained young folk to stop by your home to help you understand the error of your ways?

The sooner the better.

[DanielLongo]

The scriptures are plain and precious. Leave it to an Evangelical to take a whole page of philosophical wandering to explain one verse of the Bible. LOL. And still get it wrong! LOL LOL.

[colorcountry]

I am not a scientist and so DNA evidence, while interesting, is hard for me to understand. DL, are YOU a scientist?

Here is a link to some scientists refuting the claims of Mormonism. Scientists Address LDS Challenges

It all boils down to Joseph Smith. Was he a Prophet? Defend the claim (if you think you can)

[MHGinTN]

Define wife, Mormon. And be specific in the definition, then perhaps one of us will help you to understand the answer to your loaded question which you raised to denigrate the Bible prophets in order to promote your peepstone, lying, false prophet, Joseph Smith. [Yes, a lying peepstone prophet, proven that he lied through his teeth to his congregation regarding his multiple sex partners and wives.]

And please, continue to spew your condescension and derision of anyone opposing the heresies in Mormonism, because your example is so common to the apologetics applications of FAIR LDS and FARMS cut and paste anti-Christian materials. So, we await your definition of 'wife' so we can see if it applies to Hagar, for example.

[MHGinTN]

Leave it to a Mormon apologist to cut and paste reems of FAIR LDS and FARMS heretical anti-Christian bilgespittle. Nice job, Mormon. Your insulting condescension and derision of Orthodox Christianity is the face of Mormonism to some readers. Keep revealing your spirit of anti-Christ, it is most instructive. And you are protected at FR, so feel free to insult at will, only the responses to your garbage will be pulled upon complaint.

[MHGinTN]

By their fruits ye shall know them ... here's Zakeet's list of Smithian fruits ...

A supposed prophet, Joseph Smith, who taught:

1. That Jesus and Satan are brothers, that God had incestuous relations with His daughter (Mary), and that Christian pastors are "dimwitted hirelings of Satan

2. That God is a polygamous celestial stud married to our Heavenly Mother

3. Of Kolob and of other worlds named Planet Oblish and Planet Enish-go-on-dosh ruled by a governing power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam

4. Of sacred scriptures based on pagan works such as prayers to Egyptian gods for dead spirits … which were supposedly translated using occult devices such as peep stones

5. Of prominent display of Satanic symbols such as pentagrams, baphomets, earth stones, and saturn stones on his churches' religious buildings and literature

6. Of the wearing a fig leaf apron in temple ceremonies to symbolize Satan’s power and priesthoods

7. Of having Lucifer teach Mormon church doctrine in the temple ceremony

8. Of portraying Satan as the god of this world in Mormon rites and ceremonies

9. Of offering prayers to the devil – Oh God, hear the words of my mouth

10. Of praising Satan by chanting Hebrew words in the temple ceremony whose translation is Marvelous Lucifer

11. That husbands can resurrect their wives from the grave

12. Of having special grips and clasps to tell ghosts from angels and the devil

13. Of practicing baptism for the dead

14. Of wearing magic underwear to protect from physical harm – with symbols so sacred that they must be cut out and buried and the garment burned when it wears out

15. That the Ten Lost Tribes and the apostle John will be discovered living in cement houses in a tropical land adjacent to the North Pole separated by a high mountain range

16. That men about six feet tall, dressed like Quakers, will be discovered dwelling on the moon where they live for about 1,000 years

17. That science will prove the earth has knobs on each end

18. That he was commanded by god to retranslate the Bible because the existing translations contained errors – eventually devising an Inspired Revision completed in 1833 - which was rejected by his church who still uses the King James Version

19. That his followers should burdened by a complex series of regulations which determine their progression as gods of their own planets - complete with a harem of goddess wives

20. That he was greater than Jesus

[ejonesie22]

Well obviously the complexity has you a bit stymied. You missed the most simple of the conclusions and point made.

That Subset showed up here 12,000 years ago AT THE EARLIEST and is EUROPEAN. Indeed the science shows as much as 36,000 years ago.

Now let me go to your OWN POST:

So professor, explain HaplogroupX to us then. That is solid DNA evidence of a people, the Hopewell Indians, who covered North America from present-day New York in the East to the Great Plains in the West, the Upper Great Lakes region in the North, down to the panhandle of Florida in the South.

This haplogroup is found in Europe, not Asia. The distinct subset of this particular founding haplogroup (meaning that it originated on the North American continent around 600 B.C.) only be found in one other place in the world- the region encompassing present day Israel.

Now I know it is not the place for one so humble as myself to point this out, and I am sure a great mind like yous would know this, but perhaps because you mind is so vast you just missed it, but 600 BC WAS NOT 12,000 years ago.

Occams Razor strikes again. European individuals either via sea or the ice flows migrated to North America, and their genetic code became part of the mix in the new world.

Now if you will be so kind, I have some other research that has been point out to me by one of my genetic Science buddies over at the University Medical Center (thanks Scott in case you are reading this). It appears after further study that Mitochondrial Breakdown shows the date of this gene hitting the North American being even further back.

Ouch...

I am trying to obtain some of that info now, but it may take a bit, so bear with me.

[AppyPappy]

Gold plates huh?

We need to try that the next time we need volunteers for Children’s Church. “Oh look Mrs Nelson, you are on this gold plate marked Volunteers for Children’s Church”.

[JRochelle]

What is there to covet?

[ejonesie22]

Oooh...

I so love real science...

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1131883

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1131885

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B8JDD-4RY1NS0-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e39bc2256a9149ac293a0b3f60bc2c19

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm

Now your mind is much greater than mine, but it seems to me the main facts are that a very small population can account for the DNA, perhaps as small as 70 individuals, and that it appeared here many thousands of years before the Lehites/Nephites would have gotten here.

Now if you have some independent NON LDS science that can dispute this in a believable fashion, I am all ears. As it is, the Hopewell Indians were very industrious and successful in their own right.

[MHGinTN]

:-)

[MHGinTN]

Game, set, and match ... Checkmate ... And he Scores! But be ready, the mormonism apologists are big on that river in Egypt don’tchaknow. They don’t need no stinking scientific facts.

[ejonesie22]

The Pet shop sketch from Monty Python:

Mr. Praline : Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot, what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

Owner : Oh yes, the, ah, the Norwegian Blue... What’s, ah... W-what’s wrong with it?

Mr. Praline : I’ll tell you what’s wrong with it, my lad. It’s dead, that’s what’s wrong with it.

Owner : No, no, ‘e’s ah... he’s resting.

Mr. Praline : Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I’m looking at one right now.

Owner : No no, h-he’s not dead, he’s, he’s restin’!

Mr. Praline : Restin’?

Owner : Y-yeah, restin.’ Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, isn’t it, eh? Beautiful plumage!

Mr. Praline : The plumage don’t enter into it. It’s stone dead!

Owner : Nononono, no, no! ‘E’s resting!

Mr. Praline : All right then, if he’s resting, I’ll wake him up!

[MHGinTN]

Watched it just the other day. One of the funniest Monty Python skits ever. Most people don’t notice the clerk’s placing a mustache on his lip after he sends Mr. Praline to the ‘other pet shop’. Funny funny stuff.

[ejonesie22]

Kind of like talking with these guys, ain’t it...

[Reno232]

Is your attempt to divert to another question evidence that you have no retort to the questions & points made in my posts, as well as CUH’s? Again, not that that's surprising, b/c I don't feel there is a sound retort other than to say that's what Christianity as a whole has believed for centuries so it must be true, or that perhaps it's just too complicated for man to understand.

What I'm disappointed about is that you didn't even try to defend your position. You have put a lot of stock in the whole Trinity argument, & yet when confronted, you simply divert to another question rather than defend your beliefs. You & the rest of the cabal constantly ask us to defend our beliefs, & we do, largely b/c we believe in these things.

Am I to surmise that defense of one's beliefs is only a one way street in your eyes? As a Christian, I would think you would want to defend those beliefs, rather than just divert to another question. Again, not trying to pound you unnecessarily, just giving food for thought. Your snide remarks about our beliefs has left you somewhat open to charges of hypocrisy.

In answer to your question, we believe in the Godhead that comprises God the Father, our Savior Jesus Christ, & the Holy Ghost. Three separate & distinct members of the Godhead as spoken of in the Bible. Thus, Christ is Deity. Hope that answers your question. Have a good one today my FRiend.