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http://lifeongoldplates.blogspot.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html ^
| August 14, 2008
| Richard Bushman
Posted on 08/15/2008 1:47:27 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
The following is Richard Bushman's introduction to the 2008 summer seminar, Joseph Smith and His Critics, given July 29, 2008. I also have a poor mp3 recording of the paper and in the next week or so I plan on blogging any additions Bushman made in reading the paper to the group. For my thoughts on the seminar in general, see "Preliminary Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," and "Follow-up Thoughts on the 2008 Bushman Seminar." For notes on the presentations themselves, see Juvenile Instructor's "Notes on the 2008 Bushman Seminar," parts one and two.
Introduction
Richard Bushman
Increasingly teachers and church leaders at all levels are approached by Latter-day Saints who have lost confidence in Joseph Smith and the basic miraculous events of church history. They doubt the First Vision, the Book of Mormon, many of Josephs revelations, and much besides. They fall into doubt after going on the Internet and finding shocking information about Joseph Smith based on documents and facts they had never heard before. A surprising number had not known about Joseph Smiths plural wives. They are set back by differences in the various accounts of the First Vision. They find that Egyptologists do not translate the Abraham manuscripts the way Joseph Smith did, making it appear that the Book of Abraham was a fabrication. When they come across this information in a critical book or read it on one of the innumerable critical Internet sites, they feel as if they had been introduced to a Joseph Smith and a Church history they had never known before. They undergo an experience like viewing the famous picture of a beautiful woman who in a blink of an eye turns into an old hag. Everything changes. What are they to believe?
Often church leaders, parents, and friends, do not understand the force of this alternate view. Not knowing how to respond, they react defensively. They are inclined to dismiss all the evidence as anti-Mormon or of the devil. Stop reading these things if they upset you so much, the inquirer is told. Or go back to the familiar formula: scriptures, prayer, church attendance.
The troubled person may have been doing all of these things sincerely, perhaps even desperately. He or she feels the world is falling apart. Everything these inquirers put their trust in starts to crumble. They want guidance more than ever in their lives, but they dont seem to get it. The facts that have been presented to them challenge almost everything they believe. People affected in this way may indeed stop praying; they dont trust the old methods because they feel betrayed by the old system. Frequently they are furious. On their missions they fervently taught people about Joseph Smith without knowing any of these negative facts. Were they taken advantage of? Was the Church trying to fool them for its own purposes?
These are deeply disturbing questions. They shake up everything. Should I stay in the Church? Should I tell my family? Should I just shut up and try to get along? Who can help me?
At this point, these questioners go off in various directions. Some give up on the Church entirely. They find another religion or, more likely these days, abandon religion altogether. Without their familiar Mormon God, they are not sure there is any God at all. They become atheist or agnostic. Some feel the restrictions they grew up with no longer apply. The strength has been drained out of tithing, the Word of Wisdom, and chastity. They partly welcome the new freedom of their agnostic condition. Now they can do anything they please without fear of breaking the old Mormon rules. The results may not be happy for them or their families.
Others piece together a morality and a spiritual attitude that stops them from declining morally, but they are not in an easy place. When they go to church, , they are not comfortable. Sunday School classes and Sacrament meeting talks about Joseph Smith and the early church no longer ring true. How can these people believe these fairy tales, the inquirers ask. Those who have absorbed doses of negative material live in two minds: their old church mind which now seems naive and credulous, and their new enlightened mind with its forbidden knowledge learned on the internet and from critical books.
A friend who is in this position described the mindset of the disillusioned member this way:
Due to the process of learning, which they have gone through, these [two-minded] LDS often no longer accept the church as the only true one (with the only true priesthood authority and the only valid sacred ordinances), but they see it as a Christian church, in which good, inspired programs are found as well as failure and error. They no longer consider inspiration, spiritual and physical healing, personal and global revelation limited to the LDS church. In this context, these saints may attend other churches, too, where they might have spiritual experiences as well. They interpret their old spiritual experiences differently, understanding them as testimonies from God for them personally, as a result of their search and efforts, but these testimonies dont necessarily have to be seen as a confirmation that the LDS church is the only true one.
Since the social relationships between them and other ward (or stake) members suffer (avoidance, silence, even mobbing) because of their status as heretics, which is usually known via gossip, and since the extent of active involvement and range of possible callings are reduced because of their nonconformity in various areas, there is a risk that they end up leaving the church after all, because they are simply ignored by the majority of the other members.
He then offers a recommendation:
It is necessary that the church not only shows more support and openness to these apostates but also teaches and advises all members, bishops, stake presidents etc., who usually dont know how to deal with such a situation in terms of organizational and ecclesiastical questions and out of insecurity fail to treat the critical member with the necessary love and respect that even a normal stranger would receive.
Those are the words of someone who has lost belief in many of the fundamentals and is working out a new relationship to the Church. Other shaken individuals recover their belief in the basic principles and events but are never quite the same as before. Their knowledge, although no longer toxic, gives them a new perspective. They tend to be more philosophic and less dogmatic about all the stories they once enjoyed. Here are some of the characteristics of people who have passed through this ordeal but managed to revive most of their old beliefs.
1. They often say they learned the Prophet was human. They dont expect him to be a model of perfect deportment as they once thought. He may have taken a glass of wine from time to time, or scolded his associates, or even have made business errors. They see his virtues and believe in his revelations but dont expect perfection.
2. They also dont believe he was led by revelation in every detail. They see him as learning gradually to be a prophet and having to feel his way at times like most Church members. In between the revelations, he was left to himself to work out the methods of complying with the Lords commandments. Sometimes he had to experiment until he found the right way.
3. These newly revived Latter-day Saints also develop a more philosophical attitude toward history. They come to see (like professional historians) that facts can have many interpretations. Negative facts are not necessarily as damning as they appear at first sight. Put in another context along side other facts, they do not necessarily destroy Joseph Smiths reputation.
4. Revived Latter-day Saints focus on the good things they derive from their faiththe community of believers, the comforts of the Holy Spirit, the orientation toward the large questions of life, contact with God, moral discipline, and many others. They dont want to abandon these good things. Starting from that point of desired belief, they are willing to give Joseph Smith and the doctrine a favorable hearing. They may not be absolutely certain about every item, but they are inclined to see the good and the true in the Church.
At the heart of this turmoil is the question of trust. Disillusioned Latter-day Saints feel their trust has been betrayed. They dont know whom to trust. They dont dare trust the old feelings that once were so powerful, nor do they trust church leaders. They can only trust the new knowledge they have acquired. Those who come back to the Church are inclined to trust their old feelings. Their confidence in the good things they knew before is at least partially restored. But they sort out the goodness that seems still vital from the parts that now seem no longer tenable. Knowledge not only has given them a choice, it has compelled them to choose. They have to decide what they really believe. In the end, many are more stable and convinced than before. They feel better prepared to confront criticism openly, confident they can withstand it.
- - - -
The members of the seminar on Joseph Smith and His Critics, a group of Religious Education and CES faculty who met at BYU for six weeks in the summer of 2008, are among those who have known Latter-day Saints in this state of confusion and doubt. We have had many opportunities to talk to questioners about their problems and admit that we have often fallen short in our answers. We came together in hopes of learning to do better. Besides gathering information on a series of specific issues, we have discussed how best to deal with questioning Saints. What way of speaking is most likely to win their trust and convince them we have their best interests at heart?
We began by agreeing that criticisms of Joseph Smith should not be dismissed as foolish or purely evil. The negative attacks that disturb first-time readers are usually based on facts, not merely prejudiced fabrications. To play down the force of the criticism, we believe, only convinces the seekers that we do not understand. We appear to be sweeping trouble under the rug. They may have been devastated by a criticism; we must show that we understand why. Consequently, the seminar took as its first principle to state the negative argument as fully and accurately as we can. We try not to minimize the difficulty or prejudice the case against the critic. In no other way can we persuade the doubters that we understand the problem.
Secondly, we try to avoid dogmatic answers. Rather than replace the dogmatic negative attacks of the critics with our own dogmatic answers, we attempt to show that a more positive interpretation is possible. Critics often claim that Josephs sins were so egregious as to utterly disqualify him as a prophet. We can understand their viewpoint, but we think there is another side to the story. Rather than destroy the critics, we want to loosen their grip. In the long run, we believe this approach will persuade questioners more effectively than claims to certainty where none is possible. We believe in stating our own strong convictions about the church as a whole, but we do not to pretend to perfect knowledge about complex historical questions.
We know that airing criticisms troubles many Latter-day Saints. Like most Church teachers, the members of the seminar do not want to draw attention to questions that will only unsettle faithful members. But we also feel that silence is not the answer. The absence of instruction troubles questioners more than anything. They feel they have been betrayed because they came through their Church classes ignorant of the devastating information now a few clicks away on the internet. The gaps in their education leave them disillusioned and angry.
To counteract this lack of preparation, the seminar members have taken as our motto the scripture that begins: As all have not faith, teach one another (D&C 88:118). We are encouraged by the scriptural recognition that not all have faith, and by the appealing remedy, teach one another. For many questioners, loneliness is the heart of the problems. No one seems to understand. We are enjoined by this scripture to find these seekers and bring them into a fellowship of inquiry. We hope that our papers will help Church teachers create safe havens where questions may be asked and answers explored--where we can teach one another.
____________________________________________
TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: lds; mormon
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To: Elsie
MORE condemnation of Christianity by mormon leaders:
"Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):
"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324
Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):
"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 266
"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men."
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie (1915 - 1985):
".the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization [Christianity], founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was."
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46
... all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ.... in large part the worship of apostate Christendom is performed in ignorance, as much so as was the worship of the Athenians who bowed the Unknown Gods.
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 269, 374-375
Prophet Ezra Taft Benson (1899 - 1994):
"This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..."
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165
Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley (1910 - ):
We accept that as a statement which came to him [Joseph Smith's vision in which he was told all other religions were "abominations"], which is printed, of course, and published in his history as a statement. But we go forward with a friendly relationship, with a respect for people everywhere and with an effort to accept them as we meet them and, where opportunity exists, to talk with them and explain to them what we believe.... We dont criticize them for what they believe. We accept the good that comes of that understanding which they have, but we feel we having something to offer beyond what they have.
- Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, interview with Richard Ostling, as quoted in Mormon America, by Richard and Joan Ostling, p. 323
God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] following the appearance in it of Satan no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.
- Kent P. Jackson, Early Signs of Apostasy, Ensign, December 1984, p. 9
221
posted on
08/18/2008 6:29:27 AM PDT
by
greyfoxx39
(1992...how many folks had heard of Bill Clinton? John McCain, Eric Cantor for your VP pick!)
To: Elsie
We have been over this before. So here is your question (again):
What of the multiple wives of Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Gideon and so forth?
To: svcw
Well I believe as I stated before in God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ as spoken in all of the Standard works which all the scriptures atest to!
Philip. 1:
1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ
223
posted on
08/18/2008 7:05:22 AM PDT
by
restornu
(Here comes that feeling again my heart still yearn for what my mind wonÂ’t accept Investigator)
To: ejonesie22
First of all, the Church does not claim this culture as
its culture. It is the culture and people of the Book of Mormon. However, I personally may claim it as part of
my culture, since my great grandmother was of a HaplogroupX tribe.
Your links go to prove my point further. To wit:
Thus far, haplogroup X has not been detected in numerous Asian/ Siberian populations analyzed by high-resolution restriction analysis or CR sequencing (table 3). Three (2.9%) of 103 Mongolians harbored both the 16223T and 16278T mutations, but they also contained the 110394 DdeI and 110397 AluI markers (Kolman et al. 1996), placing them in Asian superhaplogroup M (Ballinger et al. 1992) and excluding them from haplogroup X.
If you don't understand what this publication is saying, let me educate you in the most non-"erudite" manner I can.
The markers of what appeared to be HaplogroupX found in Mongolia among the Altains were actually introduced into the genetic pool during the time of the Khan. The mitochondrial markers are from the Slavic and Eastern European Caucasus regions. They do not bear the markers of the HaplogroupX found in America and the Near East and certainly not at the same frequency. This non-matching HaplogroupX is found at a rate of about 3% among the Altains alone (no other Asian population has it), while the matching HaplogroupX with matching subset 2 (as it varies from the European HaplogroupX subset 1) is found at a frequency of 26% among the present-day inhabitants of the region encompassing Israel.
To: Elsie
When would be a good time for a couple of our highly trained young folk to stop by your home to help you understand the error of your ways? The sooner the better.
To: Colofornian
The scriptures are plain and precious. Leave it to an Evangelical to take a whole page of philosophical wandering to explain one verse of the Bible. LOL. And still get it wrong! LOL LOL.
To: DanielLongo
I am not a scientist and so DNA evidence, while interesting, is hard for me to understand. DL, are YOU a scientist?
Here is a link to some scientists refuting the claims of Mormonism. Scientists Address LDS Challenges
It all boils down to Joseph Smith. Was he a Prophet? Defend the claim (if you think you can)
227
posted on
08/18/2008 7:12:28 AM PDT
by
colorcountry
(To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
To: DanielLongo
Define wife, Mormon. And be specific in the definition, then perhaps one of us will help you to understand the answer to your loaded question which you raised to denigrate the Bible prophets in order to promote your peepstone, lying, false prophet, Joseph Smith. [Yes, a lying peepstone prophet, proven that he lied through his teeth to his congregation regarding his multiple sex partners and wives.]
And please, continue to spew your condescension and derision of anyone opposing the heresies in Mormonism, because your example is so common to the apologetics applications of FAIR LDS and FARMS cut and paste anti-Christian materials. So, we await your definition of 'wife' so we can see if it applies to Hagar, for example.
228
posted on
08/18/2008 7:20:28 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: DanielLongo
Leave it to a Mormon apologist to cut and paste reems of FAIR LDS and FARMS heretical anti-Christian bilgespittle. Nice job, Mormon. Your insulting condescension and derision of Orthodox Christianity is the face of Mormonism to some readers. Keep revealing your spirit of anti-Christ, it is most instructive. And you are protected at FR, so feel free to insult at will, only the responses to your garbage will be pulled upon complaint.
229
posted on
08/18/2008 7:24:26 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: DanielLongo
By their fruits ye shall know them ... here's Zakeet's list of Smithian fruits ...A supposed prophet, Joseph Smith, who taught:
- That Jesus and Satan are brothers, that God had incestuous relations with His daughter (Mary), and that Christian pastors are "dimwitted hirelings of Satan
- That God is a polygamous celestial stud married to our Heavenly Mother
- Of Kolob and of other worlds named Planet Oblish and Planet Enish-go-on-dosh ruled by a governing power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam
- Of sacred scriptures based on pagan works such as prayers to Egyptian gods for dead spirits
which were supposedly translated using occult devices such as peep stones
- Of prominent display of Satanic symbols such as pentagrams, baphomets, earth stones, and saturn stones on his churches' religious buildings and literature
- Of the wearing a fig leaf apron in temple ceremonies to symbolize Satans power and priesthoods
- Of having Lucifer teach Mormon church doctrine in the temple ceremony
- Of portraying Satan as the god of this world in Mormon rites and ceremonies
- Of offering prayers to the devil Oh God, hear the words of my mouth
- Of praising Satan by chanting Hebrew words in the temple ceremony whose translation is Marvelous Lucifer
- That husbands can resurrect their wives from the grave
- Of having special grips and clasps to tell ghosts from angels and the devil
- Of practicing baptism for the dead
- Of wearing magic underwear to protect from physical harm with symbols so sacred that they must be cut out and buried and the garment burned when it wears out
- That the Ten Lost Tribes and the apostle John will be discovered living in cement houses in a tropical land adjacent to the North Pole separated by a high mountain range
- That men about six feet tall, dressed like Quakers, will be discovered dwelling on the moon where they live for about 1,000 years
- That science will prove the earth has knobs on each end
- That he was commanded by god to retranslate the Bible because the existing translations contained errors eventually devising an Inspired Revision completed in 1833 - which was rejected by his church who still uses the King James Version
- That his followers should burdened by a complex series of regulations which determine their progression as gods of their own planets - complete with a harem of goddess wives
- That he was greater than Jesus
230
posted on
08/18/2008 7:34:02 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: DanielLongo
Well obviously the complexity has you a bit stymied. You missed the most simple of the conclusions and point made.
That Subset showed up here 12,000 years ago AT THE EARLIEST and is EUROPEAN. Indeed the science shows as much as 36,000 years ago.
Now let me go to your OWN POST:
So professor, explain HaplogroupX to us then. That is solid DNA evidence of a people, the Hopewell Indians, who covered North America from present-day New York in the East to the Great Plains in the West, the Upper Great Lakes region in the North, down to the panhandle of Florida in the South.
This haplogroup is found in Europe, not Asia. The distinct subset of this particular founding haplogroup (meaning that it originated on the North American continent around 600 B.C.) only be found in one other place in the world- the region encompassing present day Israel.
Now I know it is not the place for one so humble as myself to point this out, and I am sure a great mind like yous would know this, but perhaps because you mind is so vast you just missed it, but 600 BC WAS NOT 12,000 years ago.
Occams Razor strikes again. European individuals either via sea or the ice flows migrated to North America, and their genetic code became part of the mix in the new world.
Now if you will be so kind, I have some other research that has been point out to me by one of my genetic Science buddies over at the University Medical Center (thanks Scott in case you are reading this). It appears after further study that Mitochondrial Breakdown shows the date of this gene hitting the North American being even further back.
Ouch...
I am trying to obtain some of that info now, but it may take a bit, so bear with me.
231
posted on
08/18/2008 7:43:22 AM PDT
by
ejonesie22
(Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
To: MHGinTN
Gold plates huh?
We need to try that the next time we need volunteers for Children’s Church. “Oh look Mrs Nelson, you are on this gold plate marked Volunteers for Children’s Church”.
232
posted on
08/18/2008 7:49:13 AM PDT
by
AppyPappy
(If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
To: Elsie
233
posted on
08/18/2008 7:59:43 AM PDT
by
JRochelle
(Obama: I don't want Edwards punished with a baby!)
To: DanielLongo
234
posted on
08/18/2008 8:41:14 AM PDT
by
ejonesie22
(Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
To: AppyPappy
:-)
235
posted on
08/18/2008 8:52:37 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: ejonesie22
Game, set, and match ... Checkmate ... And he Scores! But be ready, the mormonism apologists are big on that river in Egypt don’tchaknow. They don’t need no stinking scientific facts.
236
posted on
08/18/2008 9:00:20 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: MHGinTN
The Pet shop sketch from Monty Python:
Mr. Praline : Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot, what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Owner : Oh yes, the, ah, the Norwegian Blue... What’s, ah... W-what’s wrong with it?
Mr. Praline : I’ll tell you what’s wrong with it, my lad. It’s dead, that’s what’s wrong with it.
Owner : No, no, ‘e’s ah... he’s resting.
Mr. Praline : Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I’m looking at one right now.
Owner : No no, h-he’s not dead, he’s, he’s restin’!
Mr. Praline : Restin’?
Owner : Y-yeah, restin.’ Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, isn’t it, eh? Beautiful plumage!
Mr. Praline : The plumage don’t enter into it. It’s stone dead!
Owner : Nononono, no, no! ‘E’s resting!
Mr. Praline : All right then, if he’s resting, I’ll wake him up!
237
posted on
08/18/2008 9:04:23 AM PDT
by
ejonesie22
(Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
To: ejonesie22
Watched it just the other day. One of the funniest Monty Python skits ever. Most people don’t notice the clerk’s placing a mustache on his lip after he sends Mr. Praline to the ‘other pet shop’. Funny funny stuff.
238
posted on
08/18/2008 9:06:39 AM PDT
by
MHGinTN
(Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
To: MHGinTN
Kind of like talking with these guys, ain’t it...
239
posted on
08/18/2008 9:08:32 AM PDT
by
ejonesie22
(Bigoted Neanderthal Evangelicals support Eric Cantor for VP. Shalom.)
To: ejonesie22
Is your attempt to divert to another question evidence that you have no retort to the questions & points made in my posts, as well as CUH’s? Again, not that that's surprising, b/c I don't feel there is a sound retort other than to say that's what Christianity as a whole has believed for centuries so it must be true, or that perhaps it's just too complicated for man to understand.
What I'm disappointed about is that you didn't even try to defend your position. You have put a lot of stock in the whole Trinity argument, & yet when confronted, you simply divert to another question rather than defend your beliefs. You & the rest of the cabal constantly ask us to defend our beliefs, & we do, largely b/c we believe in these things.
Am I to surmise that defense of one's beliefs is only a one way street in your eyes? As a Christian, I would think you would want to defend those beliefs, rather than just divert to another question. Again, not trying to pound you unnecessarily, just giving food for thought. Your snide remarks about our beliefs has left you somewhat open to charges of hypocrisy.
In answer to your question, we believe in the Godhead that comprises God the Father, our Savior Jesus Christ, & the Holy Ghost. Three separate & distinct members of the Godhead as spoken of in the Bible. Thus, Christ is Deity. Hope that answers your question. Have a good one today my FRiend.
240
posted on
08/18/2008 9:12:02 AM PDT
by
Reno232
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