Posted on 07/20/2008 9:36:13 PM PDT by Graybeard58
Mormons focus on accessible, social aspects of their religion. Although the Mormon system of doctrine is genuinely attractive to many of its members, many have argued that the primary "glue" of Mormonism is the heritage, culture, and family ties, not the doctrine and theology.
In other words, the typical allegiance to the Mormon organization primarily stems from something other than doctrinal concerns. The average Mormon sitting in a pew does not care how or why their religion works, they only care that it works for them.
They are not concerned with the real character of Joseph Smith or how the LDS scriptures coincide with biblical teachings. A common element often overlooked when Christians share their faith with Latter-day Saints is that many Mormons are not Mormon merely for doctrinal reasons. This view of not being concerned with theology is considered to be atheological. If a person does not care about their theology, they miss the importance of rooting their entire life in the true knowledge of God and a coherent, rational, theological worldview.
A person's relationship with God is built on the foundation of what one believes about God and what it means to be right with God. This is the most important determining factor in shaping the way a person lives.
An atheological person does not seriously reflect on their own foundational worldview assumptions (e.g., what is truth, who is God, does this matter?), nor do they see how doing so would be relevant to everyday life.
South Park, a fictional, satirical cartoon, depicted a Mormon named "Gary" with the following words:
"Look, maybe us Mormons do believe in crazy stories that make absolutely no sense. And maybe Joseph Smith did make it all up. But I have a great life and a great family and I have the Book of Mormon to thank for that. The truth is, I dont care if Joseph Smith made it all up. Because what the church teaches now is loving your family, being nice and helping people. And even though people in this town might think thats stupid, I still choose to believe in it."
Grey Echols, a Mormon, writes the following in a review of By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus:
"This is a well written book which manages to not push an 'anti-Mormon' agenda. However as an LDS I do not think others should read it. Why? Because it could destroy your faith in the church. I am not trying to be clever. If you enjoy all of the good things the church has brought into your life, do you care where it came from?
No other church has so short a history that it can be examined so closely by science. Otherwise we would find that they are all created on the backs of con-artist. I am willing to bet every religion was founded by a fraud. So who cares. Does religion bring us together? Does it bond a nation, a town, a family? If so then let it be.
The truth is fleeting, and life is short. If believing in Santa makes children smile then believing in God makes adults smile. When children find out Santa isn't real, you kill a certain spark you can never get back. When you expose a church as a fraud, you kill a little spark in all of us."
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First off, you are using Joseph's direct writings, and the second hand writings of others and comparing them to just Paul's first hand writings.
But then again, who cares.
The light of Christ cannot be extinguished by the acts of mortal man no matter how brutal times may have been. Men of Christ carried on, endured through the mayhem foist upon the rapidly growing faith by the evil one.
The word has never left us, Paul's lessons are what has built the modern church.
Seeking to take Amos and apply it to fit some prophecy in reverse, while an interesting aside, does not make it so.
When indeed there are none left who call themselves Christian, a day that may come, then Amos will have been fulfilled. The word still lives among the faithful, it has gone no where, and God did not turn his back and disappeard from this Earth.
An interesting contradiction for you. A few weeks ago on this very board, a July Fourth article by I believe your current LDS president, sung the virtues of the Founding Fathers, and discussed how inspired by God the Constitution was.
If what you say is true, that God abandoned us and we abandoned his word, and continued to do so, and that the Word was not restored until it was given back to J. Smith, then how can the Constitution be divinely inspired, some 40-50 years before the Word came back to man in the hands of the “prophet” Smith, before God came back to us?
That makes little sense, and it is from “the horses mouth” so to speak....
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So he is comparing apples to apples?
I can see where that would be a problem for you. As I am rapidly learning by reading them, first hand sources are the last thing the LDS wants to go by.
F - even smith's personal diary in his handwriting contradicts the official account, let alone the account he dictated to Cowdry and published in time and seasons IIRC.
Who cares - well those who want truth and those who would rather be deceived.
Can you show me scripture that says the sun went down at noon the day Jesus died on the cross ???
There was darkness, but the sun did not go down at noon...
The sun didnt go anywhere...
Just darkness..that was not a darkness of night...or absense of the sun came ...
...and the DARKNESS He called NIGHT Genesis 1:5
Night in the Greek is nux..just meaning “night” or “midnight”
The darkness that was over the earth when Jesus died is not called NIGHT in the scriptures..
That DARKNESS is skotos in the Greek..from skia...
skia...shade, darkness of error, shadow
skotos...shadiness, obsurity, darkness
The Scriptures dont mention NIGHT or the absense of the sun...
Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. Matthew 27:45
And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. Mark 15:33
And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. Luke 23:44
Actually the sun does not “go down”
God knows how His solar system works He designed it...
God made the sun and set the planets twirling around it..
But the false prophet Joseph Smith didnt know that nor did he talk to God to find out .. more “worthy ignorance” ????
And so, you get all this dumb “interpretation”
The false prophet Joseph Smith taught there were people living on the moon and Brigham Young agreed and declared there were people living on the sun also...
According to Oliver B. Huntington, Joseph Smith taught that “The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about 6 feet in height.
“They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style, or fashion of dress.
“They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years.
“This is the description of them as given by Joseph the seer, and he could `See’ whatever he asked the father in the name of Jesus to see,” (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, Vol. 3, p. 166; as recorded at the Utah State Historical Society).
Oliver B. Huntington wrote the proceeding statement in 1881. In 1892 he made a similar statement in the Young Woman’s Journal, a church publication:
“Astronomers and philosophers have, from time almost immemorial until very recently, asserted that the moon was uninhabited, that it had no atmosphere, etc. But recent discoveries, through the means of powerful telescopes, have given scientists a doubt or two upon the old theory.
“Nearly all the great discoveries of man in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.
“As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to be a greater age than we do, that they lived generally to near the age of 1000 years.
“He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.
“In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1937, I was told that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants of the sea — to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes,” (Vol. 3, pp. 263-264).
“Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain,” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 217).
The false prophet Joseph Smith never bothered to consult god about anything that would bring a rebuke...
Jam 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4, 5
God keeps no secrets ...
Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
Jer 29:12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11-13
Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not. Jeremiah 33:3
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Matthew 7:7, 8
That’s why Christians have confidence in God that mormons dont appear to understand..
Psa 116:1I love the LORD, because He hath heard my voice and my supplications.
Psa 116:2 Because He hath inclined his ear unto me, therefore will I call upon Him as long as I live. Psalm 116:1, 2
Ironically, as with everything else, I simply use the LDS’s own materials...
Take this in the spirit intended, perhaps it is time to “go back to school” with your own faith, you maybe very surprised at what you find.
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible via google.
Obviously? Name the "certain" FReepers to which you are referring. Give me at least two (you said FReeperS) Freeper names.
How can there be any inspired men of God from the time of your alleged "loss" of the word in this world until Joseph Smith (and from his time until now among non Mormon's). Your own words betray your position. The Word of God has lived with Men from the beginning of time, DEPITE the ills of the mortal world. Your own President praises men who should never have heard the Word of God because it was gone from this world until the “prophet” restored it.
We are not simply talking great individuals, but inspired men of God. If things were truly as you present, God would never have been heard by these men, for he was not talking to us until Joesph Smith came along according to the LDS doctrine.
You again seek division where there is none. Again I ask you, how can an ecumenical ministry made up of individuals from multiple denominations, all working to spread the same Good news of God's grace exist, and with the blessing and support of the various church authorities for each denomination, if we were “at war’ with each other.
The individual acts of a few men of power, directed by questionable motives and more than likely the spirit of the evil one does not the entire body and history of Christendom make. The stories of love and good works far out strip the evil done supposedly in his name, we are blessed with more men of goodwill and faith than were are of tyrants.
Like your question about the JS version of the Bible, perhaps it is time to look beyond what you have been taught and look into your heart, look into the true words of the Christ. You will find a far different, and ironically simpler lesson on the love and grace of our lord.
Go ahead - try to tear down the Bible so your founder's tales sound better.
Here in Indiana, we've just had some foolish Wiccan STAB herself in the foot!
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPIC,HPIC:2005-18,HPIC:en&q=wiccan+stab+foot
Yes; that is the claim the LDS Organization® makes.
However; they have no - zip - nada - nothing to back up what they so boastfully assert.
They DID??!!??
Who knew!
HMmmm...
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