Posted on 07/07/2008 10:39:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
A caller to our weekly radio program asked a question that has come up before: Are Roman Catholics saved? Let me respond to this as best I can. But I need to offer a qualifier because I think this is going to be somewhat dissatisfying for some because I am not going to say a simple "aye" or "nay." My answer is: It kind of depends. The reason I'm saying that is because of certain ambiguities.
My point is this, I think that in the area of the doctrine of salvation, Roman Catholic theology, as I understand it, is unbiblical because salvation depends on faith and works, not just faith alone. This was the specific problem Paul addressed in the book of Galatians and was the subject of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15: Is simple faith in Jesus adequate, or must gentile followers of Christ now keep the Law as a standard of acceptance before God?
I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and thats what I was taught. (For my take on the biblical relationship between faith and works, see Faith & Works: Paul vs. James.)
Now, I need to add this too. Many Protestants feel the same way. Many Protestants are confused on this issue, so this is not a Catholic vs. Protestant concern so much. It's just that Catholicism across the board has more of an official position that amounts this, where Protestants have a more diversity of views, some that don't even seem to be consistent with Protestantism.
But the fact that one believes Jesus is the Messiah and that He is the savior, not our own efforts, is critical. If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you. That seems to be clear. But when somebody says they believe in Jesus and He is their Savior, but somehow works are mingled in with the picture, then I can't really say to you how much faith that person is putting in Jesus and how much faith that person is putting in their own efforts to satisfy God. If a person has all their faith in their own efforts, then they are going to be judged by their own efforts. It's as simple as that. If they have their faith in Jesus, they will be judged by the merits of Jesus. Anyone judged by their own merits is going to be found wanting. Anyone who is judged by the merits of Jesus is not going to be found wanting because Jesus is not wanting.
What if you are kind of a mixture? I think most Catholics are, frankly. Many Protestants are, as well.
I reflect often on a comment that was made by a friend of mine named Dennis. He was a Roman Catholic brother in Christ that I knew when I was a brand new Christian. He asked me this: "Greg, how much faith does it take to be saved?" I said, "A mustard seed." And he said, "There you go."
And so, it seems to me, there are many ChristiansProtestant and Catholicwho believe in Jesus as their savior and have a mustard seed of faith, but are confused about the role of works. I think that Jesus is still Savior in those cases.
And that is consistent with what we hear around these parts. I'm going to see if I can find the companion metioned above piece for posting.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, Through Isaac shall your offspring be named. 19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.
29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.
32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated 38 of whom the world was not worthywandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
INDEED.
Nice to see another factually accurate and solidly Biblical post.
I hope to post Acts 15 with some commentary on the Mary thread shortly.
Here that? We MAY be saved...
What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"
Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]
Rock Solid: The Salvation History of the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]
Getting in Touch With Reality (good character and behavior as a ticket to Heaven)
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.
Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)
Good Will Equals Salvation? (Did the pope say non christians could be saved - part 1)
The Experience of the Salvation of Christ Today
Thanks for the usual precut spam. I’ll pass. My cholesterol is through the roof.
read later
**My cholesterol is through the roof.**
Sorry about that. Gotta stop all that eating and drinking, huh?
I’m surprised at your sarcasm. I have been thanked and thanked for compiling these lists. So many people have learned from them.
You DON’T have to learn, if that is YOUR choice.
I’ve always told my children that when I stop learning, I will be in a grave.
Only to to the glory of God.
I think the Council of Trent on this was clear on this:
CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
BUT
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.
http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html
Thank you for all of the great links! I will read all of them at my leisure.
Our foundation is the Bible, nothing more, nothing less. The verses on faith are plentiful and self explanatory. The thief on the cross was nailed there and died there unable to do anything but proclaim Jesus was who He said He was. Jesus made it plain He would be with Him. Our works are an evidence of our salvation, but certainly not required. If a mafia don gives money to the poor, it isn't going to wash the blood from his hands. Is it impossible for a bed ridden quadriplegic to be saved because he is unable to move? We are saved by faith, period!
Jesus painted a Spiritual picture of salvation by healing sick people. He didn't just heal their malady, but the sickness was sin and their faith was their cure. He said as He healed them, "By your faith you are healed". If Jesus was interested in healing sickness, He could have easily said a Word and all mankind would be healed. He was making a point to the people that came to Him for their healing. Their real sickness was sin and He is the physician. They did nothing more than believe to gain salvation. It was only natural. however to tell the crowds who it was that healed them and bring others to the Master. Once you are saved, you should be "born again" and never are the same. Your actions should count as "works" for God. If works had anything to do with salvation then a Muslim could be saved by giving oil money to the poor. Without Jesus he may as well throw it in a hole.
Salvation it is a Shame nobody from the Baptist Group answered Me how the Baptist were Following the Truth when for 2 decades they supported abortion!5th Commandment was my Clue!!haha
You and I know that to get to heaven it will take more than Faith and even Good Works...to get to heaven...Beiing in a state of Grace with no Mortal Sins..is the Clincher.
They Mock Fasting that was Requested by our Lady almost everywhere there was an apparition and in Medjugorje they said the town is without sin the way people are living fasting twice a week.
I wish I could Introduce these Chaps to Scott Hahn.. and they Could come away understanding and fulfilling Christ wishes in a More Complete Manner.Everything they Mock would bring them closer to Christ it is sad they are missing the beauty of Christ Church.
I see these same People around Philly dropping raunchy Leaflets Insulting the Church ,Mary and the Pope and then judging my Salvation.. I can only say they know not what they do! I am Off to the Border Crossing!
Keep up the Fight!!
Keep up the good work, Salvation. Who knows how many hearts have been touched by your lists?
Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
Rev 22:12 And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
Jesus' words, not Pauls'
He was taught wrong or remembers wrong. Not that it matters. Non Catholics spend way to much time worrying about Catholics. It must be a sad thing to have constantly pick at someone else in order to feel better about themselves.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.