Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Monday afternoon Mass (if not a memorial or something) is always the least well attended) Church seats 800; maybe 20-40 show up for the evening Mass and 15-30 for the AM Mass.
Seems like I have a memory trace from somewhere in my 61 years of coming across a few. I have no idea about any keywords etc. They weren’t of particular interest at the time nor since.
Whenever I need proof of hate or hubris I can google up the WCF.
The Radio Control Car? What?
I don't recall where the Catholic Church has said it "considers itself to be a perfect church."
>>It is some crazy made up english that doesn’t make sense, unless she is sharing some role with another goddess.<<
Co- is not crazy and made up. Look here
http://www.answers.com/topic/co-prefix?cat=health
Why do you think it’s made up?
If you are not capable of defending the faith of Christ risen without being "driven nuts," then the fault, Horatio, lies with your argument.
God-given understanding of His word and will by the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit brings clarity, peace, strength and joy.
23 “And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. 24 Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full. Jesus Christ Has Overcome the World john 16:25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; 27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
I know PT won't see the significance here but I certainly thought of RCs when I read it. Here Jesus is saying that even He isn't between us and the Father, yet RCs want to but Mary or saints between us and Jesus and the Father. What a bunch of RC made road blocks.
According to whom?
...and it is not Latin.
Not anywhere?
There is no “co” in Latin. If she is “with the Redeemer” as is claimed, then the correct Latin is “cum Redemptor”.
>>If it was “with the Redeemer” the Latin would be “cum Redemptor”<<
And actually the Church doesn’t teach co-redeemer anyway so it’s a moot point.
“Safe Search” is like a seatbelt. Make sure it’s on before you leave the driveway.
No it isn’t. There still exists the very squirrely and unrecognizable “co-Redemptrix” that is being called “with the Redeemer”
The Latin Catholic church doesn’t claim her to be co-redeemer so it’s a moot point.
>>No it isn’t. There still exists the very squirrely and unrecognizable “co-Redemptrix” that is being called “with the Redeemer”<<
Which Vatican document is that in?
It's not at all about that ability, it's a statement of the motives of those who raise arguments for the purpose of "driving them nuts." Whether it meets with success or failure, and in either event, the attempt is pathetic.
Where?
So God struck Bar-Jesus blind because Paul had a bad argument?
As I said, you never disappoint.
Well it’s Catholic theology and we are dealing here with a Catholic defense of it, so it is up to the Catholics to give why it is. if it can’t be defended logically then it can’t.
I’ve seen the Mother of God compared to broodmares and pagan gods, but never a road block.
Amazing.
In what way do you believe Mary blocks us from Christ?
Alas Google failed me: No results found for "TURNING UP A VERSE".
Got any other good ones?
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