He chases the cursor and steps on the keyboard in the process!
Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
So you think I need to meditate on Mary and all of her powers/mysteries in order to know how to love Jesus? So I should exchange some of my mediatations about the bible and the Father and the Son and the Holy spirit for meditations about Mary?
Hmm, how do you know it was a she?
I certainly agree with you that to state that God would give a man a stroke for joining the Catholic Church is mean, vile, and a whole lot stupid. I wouldn’t countenance any person involved in our ministry telling anyone something like that. And I appreciate your concern over such attitudes from anyone regardless of their theological/church positions.
Of course, we might see such a man in a different light than you do with regard to the processes that might have convinced him to become a Catholic. But we would refrain from protending to know the mind and will of God for individuals when they are undergoing hardships.
I sometimes am forced to rebuke some of our own who think that they have the authority to pronounce openly just what they think God is doing with people who suffer. We might have an opinion, but it is foolish to run our sinful mouths about such things. I wouldn’t think for a moment that God uses these kinds of tactics with people when they make such decisions.
Beautifully put.
How can y'all continually ignore the fact that each of you has set yourselves up as the judge of what "contradicts the word of God," but few of you agree?
It really is very cultish behavior.
Only then?
Thanks, mgist. I appreciate that.
Jesus talks to you?
I DO need all the help I can get. Seeing God's love in Our Lady, inspires me to be a better person. She is one of His many gifts. But hey, that's just me. God gave you free will, I wouldn't dream of imposing anything on anyone. I'm simply sharing my perceptions and what works for me.
This is just SO typical.
Prot1: I say you are wrong because of X!John Leland 1789 starts the game by saying that "co-" means "equal.
Cat [successfully demonstrates that X is not so.]
Prot2: Well, you're wrong anyway, I don't care what you say.
Prot1: Yeah!
We come up with many many examples where "co-" is used to me "junior"
Then you chip in with "Whatever 'co-' means it's wrong. (A view which Colossians 1:24 might lead one to question, by the way.)
And Finally John Leland 1789 says pretty much the same thing.
But the issue which John Leland 1789 raised was NOT, at this phase of the argument, what we mean and how we are to think of the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ. The issue which John Leland 1789 raised was what " co-" means. We tried to deal with that issue.
How can this kind of thing be taken seriously?
John Leland 1789, YOU raised the issue. YOU made the claim about the meaning of "co-". WHY did you attack our suggestion about what it means if your REAL argument was, "I don't care what it means, it's wrong whatever it means!"
Oh, I know. As the professed and confessed goal of your side has been revealed to be, it's not about truth or reason, it's about "driving them nuts".
Excuse me, I forgot and started taking what was said seriously.
Carry on.
B) It[s bogus. I mean you have meant it as a joke. How do you handle jokes about your side? How, when it's been shown that your side intends not to tell the truth but to create distractions shall I react to jokes about my side.
In any event, what you were joking about was a false charge made against us.
Maybe I need to lighten up. Maybe some of us might start thinking about the relationship between Christ and the Truth and then examine what the persistence in false arguments said to be intended to mislead says about that relationship. You claim a special relationship with the Spirit. So are lying and sewing dissension fruits of the Spirit?
>>At the end of Mass we said that prayer and, as I caught her to destroy her, I started giggling, and then tried to explain why a tick “prowling abut the pew” will for the rest of my days be emblematic of the “envious sprites” whom Satan unleashes upon us. <<
Did you kill her? Send her to her great “Tick reward”?
Kindly crunch this post. I have to go speak firmly to my cat who likes my keyboard.
The line between official and acceptable doesn't exist.
4 b. Even though Mary was his faithful spouse, God the Holy Spirit willed that his apostles and evangelists should say very little about her and then only as much as was necessary to make Jesus known.
Such wonderings of the imagination could be made about anyone who is named in the bible.
There is a Protestant practice of “turning up a verse” — i.e., when in doubt about any problem in life, go to a Bible, open it at random, with eyes closed, point to whatever verse your finger lands on, and take that as your answer.
Her size. Females are generally the big ones
Yep. Sho’ did. Actually, since I was going to the place of flowing waters anyway, I consigned her to a watery grave, as I recall.
Such translations are reminicent of a Monty Python skit.
He chases the cursor and steps on the keyboard in the process!
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