Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
I have nothing against RCs. Just RCism. The very idea of a celibate priesthood ... ANY PRIESThood makes me ill. Add in graven images, maryolatry, tradition equal to if not above scripture, The Papacy, (the worst) and its history as a State institution and it just boggles my mind.
More foul calumny.
>>Well, see the RC’s think that Christ has to do what Mary says. <<
Actually, my kids don’t HAVE to do what I say, but they love me enough to do it.
I would like to think that the relationship between Our Lord and His mother was perfect!
May God have mercy on whomever filled empty heads with such hate.
You are being intellectually dishonest if you claim that reference to the wedding of Cana, as an example of Our lady's intercession, equates with Jesus HAVING to do what Mary says. Please don't create false testimony against others to suite your convenience. We are all called to be servants of our God, and can always ask him to help us. We can all ask each other to pray for us. Mary is God's servant. She has served him well. She is in heaven with our God and continues to serve him, NOT boss him around. That is a disgusting comment, but I forgive you.
Ditto.
My favorite cousins were RCs because my mother’s brother, (my fave uncle) married a catholic girl and he didn’t give a hoot about church. There were three boys and a girl. All the boys got engineering degrees and raised large families. All three boys are evangelical protestants now. The girl, not being a thinking being particularly, remained in her mother’s dogma.
>>I have nothing against RCs. Just RCism. ANY PRIESThood makes me ill. Add in graven images, maryolatry, tradition equal to if not above scripture, The Papacy, (the worst) and its history as a State institution and it just boggles my mind.<<
Exactly! So the question is, “Do you love RCisms?” How do you feel about them?
Still, right or wrong? The RCs constantly complain people who post here hate them? They take personally what is only a clash of ideas. Hiding behind that facade gives them a reason not to critically examine their religion’s theology. Isn’t it just “the poor me, I’m a victim” defense?
You make an unsupported assumption that they have not critically examined their religion's theology.
Truth is hate to you. So be it.
I'm not the one(s) that claims it
Who is?
OUR LORD'S MESSAGE through Fr Jack Spaulding
"My dear ones, My Father again sends Me to you, and again I willingly come to remind you once again of His love for you. My dear ones, do not be afraid. Know that I am with you in the commitments of your life. Come before Me, and I will strengthen you for the path to which I have called you. It is not an easy one, but it is the one that will gift the world with My presence. My Father calls some to live the sacrament of marriage, calls others to My holy priesthood and others to consecrate in the religious life. Those, My dear ones, are special vocations from My Father, and those who are called to theses ways of living must realize it is a difficult path, one that will allow My Father's hope and love and mercy to become real within this world. Those who are called to these ways of living, are like lights shining out in the darkness of this century. Resist, My dear ones, who have been called to this life, temptation to abandon it, to question the reality of your call. Know that your call was given to you by God. You who are married, pray for your spouse. Love them as you love Me, as I would love and do love the church. Those who are called to the priesthood love the people to whom God Our Father has sent you. Embrace them, My dear ones, with My own Heart through channels of mercy and grace to those who come. Those who are called to religious life, to consecrate virginity, know that I am your Spouse and that I love you with an everlasting love. Those of you who are called to none of these vocations at this time, pray for those who are married, pray for those who are priests, pray for those who are consecrated religious, and pray that you will be open to what God is calling you to. I again say, so that you will remember, those who are called to marriage, to priesthood, to religious life are truly light within this century of darkness. These are My light to the world. I bless you this night, My dear ones, with My grace and mercy. I bless those who are married with the grace of perseverance and strength and joy and love. I bless those who are My priests with the grace of perseverance and the grace of holy celibacy and the grace of joy. And I bless My religious with My own tender love. Walk in peace for it is I who sent you into the world."
If you despise the Papacy, you don't know them. Please read any of their works. I recommend "Jesus of Nazareth" by Benedict. He is truly enlightened by the Holy Spirit, perhaps in the same way Graham or Rick Warren is. As you grown in your walk of faith you will learn that you can't really despise anyone. We are all children of God. Please ask him to help you be a better person. I do that for myself.
I don’t even hate him for his ways. This is really getting ridiculous. I’m not thin skinned. I just don’t like the hate word tossed around like a salad.
LOL! Is this a satire or a spoof or something? (Psst -- here's a clue: "heel" in Hebrew is "akev"! Another clue: noun "suffixes" in Hebrew indicate possession and show the gender, person and number of the possessor -- they have nothing to do with the gender of the noun.)
The Heb. for the pronoun 'it' can be either masc.fem. or neuter, but since it is referring back to the 'seed' it is neuter.;
Hebrew doesn't have a neuter.
Mindreading and making it personal are forbidden here.
Amen. Good message received by Fr. Spaulding.
No, just the truth regarding the old whore (Rev.17).
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