The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.

There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.

Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).

Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.

Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.

I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.

But do I WORSHIP them?

No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.

I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.

There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.

Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.

In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.

At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.

[Petronski]

It's called paraphrasing.

It is called mischaracterization of the original statement, and it is dishonest.

[papertyger]

It never would have come to my mind if I didn't hear it from an RC. So who is the pervert?

Well the "who's the petty PeeWee Herman clone" question sure has been answered.

Don't bother with the "I know you are, but what am I" schtick...I know, I know.

[Petronski]

It's an RC thing. It never would have come to my mind if I didn't hear it from an RC.

Suuuure.

So who is the pervert?

Whoever posts it the way you did.

[netmilsmom]

>>I don’t want anyone praying for me who does not believe that God heals and that He WILL heal. He’s doing something new and for the first time I have the faith to believe that I will be healed. Now it may be through surgery or it may be a divine healing. Of course, I prefer the divine...LOL<<

I believe it is God’s will to heal if He wants to.
Sometimes He doesn’t heal for a reason.

Thy will be done.....

[Marysecretary]

Heck, she’s not my mother. Is she yours?

[Mr. K]

show me where it says that in the bible?

and exactly how does she ‘intercede’?

does she call up the big guy and say “hey, I got a special request from Mr.K, so can you take care of this for me”

or what?

and what does ‘intercede’ mean? I thought we are supposed to worship God, not send him our christmas lists?

Just curious

[Antoninus]

I thank God and give Him alone the credit for my healing. I may thank others for their kindness in remembering me.

As I asked your co-argumentrix, please respond to this statement:

It is impossible for God to heal someone at the behest of one of His saints in heaven.

[Petronski]

So you're saying "you will conceive" is not clear?

If I say "you will post again," is that a command or a prediction?

[netmilsmom]

>>God, not send him our christmas lists?<<

Geez, why not? You don’t get if you don’t ask.

And BTW I have a king size bed I’m trying to sell on Craigslist. Why not ask God to put his blessing on the sale? His Will be done!

If it doesn’t work out, at least I know that there is a reason for it that I don’t know about....

[Marysecretary]

Ooohhh, that last line is a goodie.

[Petronski]

God graciously made Mary an offer she couldn't and wouldn't refuse.

You make the Holy Spirit a rapist. Revolting.

[Antoninus]

the Eucharist can’t save you. When I perceive that error, I speak out against it, not to hurt anyone but to speak truth.

But what if you're not speaking the truth? And in this case, you are not according to the Words of Christ himself.

See tagline.

[papertyger]

show me where it says that in the bible?

It doesn't say that in the Bible. It doesn't have to.

Anything else?

[1000 silverlings]

Isis was worshipped openly in Rome, well into the 5th century AD. Her symbol as was the symbol of all "The Queens of Heaven" was the crescent of Venus, therefore you get horns.

The pagan nature goddesses have all been made into Mary to blend the various pagan religions into a syncretic Christianity. "Juan Diego" was the anonymous "John Doe"representing everyman

[Petronski]

show me where it says that in the bible?

I will not.

[Marysecretary]

Mary is dead.

[mgist]

Message of Our Lady June 7, 2008

“Dear children, I am with you by the grace of God, to make you great - great in faith and love - all of you! You whose heart has been hard as a stone by sin and guilt, but you devout souls, I desire to illuminate with a new light. Pray that my prayer may meet open hearts that I may be able to illuminate them with the strength of faith and open the ways of love and hope. Be persevering. I will be with you. ”

[wagglebee]

Mary is dead.

Those in Heaven are "dead"?

[Petronski]

You make God a liar.

[Marysecretary]

I agree that Israel is usually spoken of here, especially in Revelations.