Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
How is this not a the Goddess?
Amazing that you refer to precision in language as fancy footwork.
Of course, how else can the explanation be dismissed?
And it must be dismissed, since it eviscerates the false claims about the meaning of the proposed term.
If you want to make of her a goddess, go right ahead. Catholicism does not do so. In fact, it rejects any such suggestion.
Twisted logic like that is the real fancy footwork in action here.
She's co-equal with Christ, but not a Goddess.
She's the Queen of Heaven, but not a Goddess.
She is equally responsible for your salvation, but not a Goddess.
All the denials are like Hillary refusing to leave.
True.
She's co-equal with Christ...
Catholicism does not teach that.
She's the Queen of Heaven, but not a Goddess.
True.
She is equally responsible for your salvation...
Catholicism does not teach that.
Not even in the slightest. We say "Thank you, God, for healing us." And we say "thank you" to our friends for their caring concern.
Do you believe God alters His plan for your life because you have 12 friends praying for you rather than six?
Oh, wait, that IS what the RCC teaches. Even after a person has died the RCC believes the number of prayers received on another person's behalf changes their status before God.
Every bit of that being a works-based salvation which is denied in Scripture over and over and over.
God understands what we need before we even ask. God hears all prayers, but He knows our prayers before we say them. He knows what we require before we ask. He knows what will become of us even as we pray for something to occur or not occur.
And none of those reasons should keep us from praying anyway because that is what God has instructed us to do as a means of bringing our every thought captive to Him alone. That way the focus is always on God and what God has done and continues to do for us in our lives.
The prayers of others may comfort and console us, but they do not heal us. God alone is the only physician.
Aw it keeps them up nights plotting and analyzing with endless psycho babble, what else do they hav to do.. John Denver hated Toledo so much he wrote a song about it.
You don't thank those who pray for you? No class.
Yes. The Living God is not the cold-hearted god created by Jean Cauvin in his own image.
4. From the moment of Mary’s consent, the mystery of the Incarnation becomes a reality. The Son of God enters our world and begins to live as a man, while remaining fully God. From that moment Mary becomes the Mother of God.
This is the highest title that can be given to a creature. It is totally justified in Mary’s case, because a mother is mother of the person of her son in the complete fullness of his humanity. Mary is the "Mother of God" inasmuch as she is the Mother of the "Son of God’, even if this motherhood is defined in the context of the mystery of the Incarnation.
For more, see here: http://www.vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01101998_p-28_en.html
God is not bound by our sense of time. He is a merciful God, not the cold-hearted god created by Jean Cauvin in his own image.
The quoted statement is wrong on multiple levels.
True. Very good.
She's co-equal with Christ, but not a Goddess.
She's the Queen of Heaven, but not a Goddess.
She is equally responsible for your salvation, but not a Goddess.
All the denials are like Hillary refusing to leave.
LOL. And equally dead-ended.
I recommend "The Cult of Mary: Psychological Origins" by Michael P. Carroll which details how the RCC concept of Mary is grounded in the pagan worship of the goddesses Isis and Cybele.
It is remarkably identical.
Catholics can read and even speak the word "co-redeemer" and yet still feign ignorance of the treacherous blapshemy being spoken. The darkness is very provocative, like your tag says, 1000S.
You have not differed with Catholicism at all here. Good job!
If that is what the author says, then he is a Catholic-hating liar.
Why feign ignorance at what is not true?
I can only assume you cannot read. I said I thank all those who pray for me for their caring concern.
Do the prayers of others heal you, Petronski? Or does God heal you?
Calvinism isn't all that provocative...you greatly overstate it.
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