Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
No, those verses have ALWAYS been there.
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You had a question. I offered you an answer.
Have a good day.
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Agreed.
And don’t forget, she is apparently the woman in Genesis, and therefore Christ’s “wife”. Man, the convolutions this theology takes
It is the "reformed" who call Christ a liar for his instructions and commands at the Last Supper, not the Catholics.
...or presume to take the glory that belongs to God alone and carelessly disperse it among the creatures as if it were their own.
The Catholic Church doesn't teach that either.
WHO has said this?
Genesis 3:15 refers to "the woman" and "her Seed." The Seed is quite obviously the Child of the woman.
Who is the woman, who is the Seed?
I've recently had a FReepmail from a Catholic poster who admonished me for something I wrote in a private FReepmail addressed to someone else.
I FReepmailed back asking how that person was able to read my private FReepmail.
Their response was "I got it from someone else."
So there does seem to be some duplicity going around. Pretty tacky. The funny thing is there is nothing in FReepmail I would be afraid to say on the open forum.
Are you an undercover Dominican?
LOL. I think that's the M.O of the Society of Jesuits.
Are you currently in the witness protection program?
That would explain a lot. 8~)
Message of May 25, 2008 "Dear children! In this time of grace, when God has permitted me to be with you, little children, I call you anew to conversion. Work on the salvation of the world in a special way while I am with you. God is merciful and gives special graces, therefore, seek them through prayer. I am with you and do not leave you alone. Thank you for having responded to my call."
Please take time to review the apparitions and the messages. She loves us all, even if we don't love her back. She always leads us to Jesus. http://www.apparitions.org/
Sorry that I can't figure out the HTML links right now, I have baby on my lap.
Ping to 1,908.
I'm still looking for someone to explain to me why all these "apparitions" or depictions thereof, have the Egyptian Goddess Hathor's global ball and horns. Maybe you know
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There's nothing stopping you from posting that private message now.
Such grand hypocrisy, huh?
They gag on "do this," then try to push "remembrance" down everyone's throat.
Geesh. This gets sillier all the time. Thank God for paper trails and post 1,832.
Anything you say. Then I will assume you will refer to me as Dr. Eckleburg every time you mention my name.
Do you remember the angel telling Mary "you will conceive...".
Yes, thank God for paper trails. They show how you mischaracterized his words
Your awesome!
So, you’re saying that Mary had no free will?
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