Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
Where do you get the idea we’re raised to hate Catholics? Not true. When I was born again, I knew there were differences in our theology but until I got on here, I never realized how much difference there really is. My folks never sat me down and told me all about those wicked Catholics. It would probably be more the other way around, the Catholics didn’t want anything to do with protestants.
Well, I’m shoving off. Things to do, places to go, money to spend! (I’m shopping for a riding mower. Hope to have one here by Saturday, the side lawn is getting LONG, and I just get exhausted pushing that mower over this acre of lawn.)
Maybe some of the Catholics are as well, Judith Anne.
I grew up Protestant and I was taught that Catholics worship Mary and idols, yeah, same ole, same ole.
Our next door nieghbors were Catholic and when their father came home every evening they rang a bell and everyone went running for prayers no matter what they were doing and if you were there you were expected to join them. After I became a Catholic and looked back I feel the HS was working in my life, pulling me to the Church even back then.
The Catholic church is NOT the church founded by Jesus Christ. Sorry. Wrongggggg. The entire Body of Christ who follow Him and are committed to Him -— THAT is the one true church.
Well, BOF, we’re all praying for yours as well...LOL.
There's no question that some on our side give as well as they get.
But if you're saying there is no collaboration among some on your side to make posts designed NOT to tell the truth, to put forward real arguments in a real quest for the truth, but to irritate, I won't believe you.
In the face of the tired old
rubber histories
rubber Bibles
rubber logic
rubber calendars
we are obligated in behalf of the lurkers to keep responding with the truth . . . which is rather unchanging.
Oh, really? Well, dear JA, we have it too. Sorry.
During our mass, we recieve Jesus' real flesh and blood, presented under the appearances of bread and wine. Joh 6:53-55. This was also prophecized in Malachi 1-11, "From the rising of the sun, even to its setting. . . they bring sacrifice to my name and a pure offerring. Earthly bread nourishes our bodies, Jesus, nourishes our souls.
We honor the saints who served our Savior. There is nothing wrong with that. We have a rich tradition and God encouraged that, why wouldn't you? "Stand firm and hold fast to traditions that you were taught, either by oral statement or by a letter of ours." 2 Thessalonians 2:15
You said: The Catholic church is NOT the church founded by Jesus Christ.
Yes it is. Scripture and history verify that.
I see the nature of such comments has not changed markedly.
You keep saying that, and yet I don’t recall your making an actual argument to support your thought.
Sorry, my sweet Judith Anne, Quix has already found Jesus and guess what? WITHOUT MARY’S HELP. Hallelujah.
I don’t know of any Prottys hereon the least bit attacking
The Church Universal founded by Jesus The Christ.
Amen!
You said: we are obligated in behalf of the lurkers to keep responding with the truth . . . which is rather unchanging.
*snicker*...you can’t be referring to the unbroken chain of chaos called protestant exegesis can you?
Try the Holy Spirit. He’s available for all who ask...
There is no phoniness, They really don’t see what they don’t want to see.
- - -
I have to pinch myself and remind myself that the subject of the above is not some RC’s hereon.
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