Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
cue laughing dog.
Perhaps it's the beam, obscuring the vision?
It’s fascinating the life of the
‘blood brother’ phrase now.
I was using it merely to emphasize the SCRIPTURALLY OBVIOUS fact of Mary having other natural children—undoubtedly by Joseph.
I certainly wouldn’t want to label them ET CLONED & implanted SUBSTITUTE BROTHERS!
LOL.
You said: cue laughing dog.
The dog may be laughing, but because of the continued attacks against the Church founded by Jesus Christ, the worm is turning too.
Hmmm....could a protestant be pinging the mob mentality, here?
Just curious....
“Now, little Johnnie, repeat our five favorite arguments against Catholics, and you can have dessert.”
*******************
It's taught. My best friend growing up was a Protestant.
Hogwash.
Holy Spirit was in charge of the confirming of the Canon.
Of course the RC edfice has been habitually taking credit for a lot of things since it’s creation in around 400AD . . . mystifyingly even taking credit for things well before it’s birth.
RELIGIOUS POLITICAL POWER MONGERING seems to know no bounds.
That's the trouble with sola scriptura, especially when practiced by the ignorant and bigoted. More accurate translations are lost.
The problem Quix, is that there are Islamic fanatics who claim to want to kill infidels in the name of God, we have Christian churches in this country that are willing to accept homosexuality, birth control, and so many deviances that are truly offensive to God. It seems to that that there are serious offenses to our Lord and certain people want to play God and condemn Catholics to hell because of how we Love our God. It’s beyond my comprehension. It is no wonder so many people are turned off by religion. I know we are not perfect, but neither is anybody else. God can not be happy with the way we are treating each other, he taught us better than that.
There is no phoniness, They really don't see what they don't want to see.
Now now . . . in such discussions, it’s hazardous to put too much stock in expectations of logical reasonableness! LOL.
Nor is it limited to just one prottie church.
NOW, NOW!
Expecting the RC edifice—especially some factions of it—to be logically consistent from AD 400 to this . . .
is akin to expecting
ALICE IN WONDERLAND’s description of reality to replace the 10 Commandments.
Quix-draw said: Holy Spirit was in charge of the confirming of the Canon.
It’s amazing how the Holy Spirit can do that but they totally emasculate Him when it comes to protecting the Church from error. Another example of making God in the image of man.
Sorry, but I’m wholesale unconvinced to the max.
Particularly when you're dealing with sola scriptura protties, raised to be rabid anti-Catholic, frothing at the mouth obsessives.
Keep me on your list. I do find your posts to be most amusing.
I’m lost. I don’t recall what I said! LOL.
I generally think the Aramaic dodge is more than a little flakey in terms of Christ’s brothers born naturally of Mary and Joseph.
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