Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
Some of you will remember my recent decision to become a Catholic. I suppose I should be surprised it ended getting derailed into a 'Catholic vs. Protestant' thread, but after going further into the Religion forum, I suppose it's par for the course.
There seems to be a bit of big issue concerning Mary. I wanted to share an observation of sorts.
Now...although I was formerly going by 'Sola Scriptura', my father was born and raised Catholic, so I do have some knowledge of Catholic doctrine (not enough, at any rate...so consider all observations thusly).
Mary as a 'co-redeemer', Mary as someone to intercede for us with regards to our Lord Jesus.
Now...I can definitely see how this would raise some hairs. After all, Jesus Himself said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that none come to the Father but through Him. I completely agree.
I do notice a bit of a fundamental difference in perception though. Call it a conflict of POV. Do Catholics worship Mary (as I've seen a number of Protestants proclaim), or do they rather respect and venerate her (as I've seen Catholics claim)? Note that it's one thing to regard someone with reverence; I revere President Bush as the noted leader of the free world. I revere my father. I revere Dr. O'Neil, a humorous and brilliant math teacher at my university. It's an act of respect.
But do I WORSHIP them?
No. Big difference between respecting/revering and worshiping. At least, that's how I view it.
I suppose it's also a foible to ask Mary to pray for us, on our behalf...but don't we tend to also ask other people to pray for us? Doesn't President Bush ask for people to pray for him? Don't we ask our family members to pray for us for protection while on a trip? I don't see quite a big disconnect between that and asking Mary to help pray for our wellbeing.
There is some question to the fact that she is physically dead. Though it stands to consider that she is still alive, in Heaven. Is it not common practice to not just regard our physical life, but to regard most of all our spirit, our soul? That which survives the flesh before ascending to Heaven or descending to Hell after God's judgment?
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I could change my mind after reading more in-depth, but I don't think that the Catholic Church has decreed via papal infallibility that Mary is to be placed on a higher pedestal than Jesus, or even to be His equal.
Do I think she is someone to be revered and respected? Certainly. She is the mother of Jesus, who knew Him for His entire life as a human on Earth. Given that He respected her (for He came to fulfill the old laws; including 'Honor Thy Father and Mother'), I don't think it's unnatural for other humans to do the same. I think it's somewhat presumptuous to regard it on the same level as idolatry or supplanting Jesus with another.
In a way, I guess the way Catholics treat Mary and the saints is similar to how the masses treated the Apostles following the Resurrection and Jesus's Ascension: people who are considered holy in that they have a deep connection with Jesus and His Word, His Teachings, His Message. As the Apostles spread the Good News and are remembered and revered to this day for their work, so to are the works of those sainted remembered and revered. Likewise with Mary. Are the Apostles worshiped? No. That's how it holds with Mary and the saints.
At least, that's how my initial thoughts on the subject are. I'll have to do more reading.
The anti-Catholic bigot structures their understanding of the entire world based on how it can be twisted to make Catholicism look bad.
Falsely.
You will also notice that the FACT that Europe also faced famine and war in the 14th and 15th centuries was entirely ignored and this had substantial effects on the population.
Additionally, the comparison to America’s growth is our first century as a free republic, this is also farcical. America had the benefit of IMMIGRATION and an ENTIRE CONTINENT FOR EXPANSION, Europe had none of these. Moreover, the Black Death DID change the face of Europe, yes it took about a century, but the transformation was incredible. Out of the Black Death came the Renaissance and the middle class (which had NEVER before existed ANYWHERE in the history of the world).
Finally, there is still the FACT that roamer_1’s original statement was that the Catholic Church was responsible for 100 MILLION deaths and we have yet to see a modicum of proof for that, just innuendo based upon untruths.
The part about the papacy “owning” Europe from 500 to 1800 was my favorite part.
***There never was such a thing as a legitimate Papacy. Call this man-made office what you will. Give him whatever authority you will.***
What possesses a man to ascend to the heights of such hubris?
Authority does not come from me to create the Church of Jesus Christ. Unlike our friends similar to yourself who create their own churches, their own theologies and their own gods in their own images.
Reggie, I have no problem with your theology as long as you don’t attempt either usurp or assist others in usurping Christianity. Slapping the old badge on a new and diluted product are counted amongst the antics of the advertising companies, not the theologically sound.
You may be as proud or as discreet as you wish to be about your Universalism and I will think no worse of you either way. Assisting others in hijacking the faith does get my attention, though.
***Fake is fake.***
And truth is truth.
***Paganism sanctified by adoption... How absurd. ***
Do tell. The cross, the Jesus fish, the tonsured heads of monks, chanting, the prayer, the altar, and even the wedding ring all come from pagan roots.
But you’ve never availed yourself or approved of any of these, have you?
***Finally, there is still the FACT that roamer_1’s original statement was that the Catholic Church was responsible for 100 MILLION deaths and we have yet to see a modicum of proof for that, just innuendo based upon untruths.***
They brag and brag about the greatness of American education; yet the average Singaporean malnourished skinny kid can outperform most of our brightest and fattest even suffering from jet lag.
My experience with most of the non denominationals and the Restorationist churchs (those created since 1835) repress history to the extreme and paint a rather rosy view of the faithful (of that sect) being persecuted all the way back to Christ, yet having to remain underground until the Reformation or Restoration or the opening of a large cask of whisky.
Good for you!
I have the living God living in ME through His Holy Spirit. I have the Living Word that guides and directs my path as well. I have all the protection I need, Petronski.
Which Apostle taught the Assumption as a plan of salvation?
Who teaches the Assumption as a plan of salvation?
I would fear God AND my own actions.
Yes, He is Love, but He is also a God of JUSTICE.
Sola scriptura, anyone?
We're assured the Holy Spirit will guide us, but how do you know the guidance you get is from the Holy Spirit?
How blind are those who WILL NOT see...
Me, too. Whew.
OHHHHH yes they are...just as dead as Mary.
Predestination to damnation is not justice. That’s the “pre” part.
The phony god concocted by Cauvin isn’t handing out justice, he’s just being cruel.
Nope.
Oh sure. That’s why it’s so full of errors. LOL.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.