Posted on 04/29/2008 6:06:04 AM PDT by restornu
Ancient writings unearthed in the last century and a half, primarily in Egypt, are lending support to doctrines and teachings of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a Brigham Young University professor of antiquities said Sunday.
C. Wilford Griggs, who has written extensively on Egypt and is working on excavating Christian burial grounds in Egypt, said scholars are now admitting that "Joseph Smith got into the antiquities" before experts in the field began their discoveries, but they won't accept his explanation.
Smith, an uneducated farm boy, claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates using instruments given him by an angel, but scholars are refusing to believe that, Griggs said during a fireside, "Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Connection," at the Pleasant Grove Manila Stake Center. Some of the ancient writings have been found in the past few years.
Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book, but as one scholar of antiquities told Griggs, he had no problem with the gold plates and Smith's story would be acceptable "if you'd get rid of that angel."
Anciently, the fountain of Christian knowledge was Egypt and the Mediterranean region and for about 1,000 years 90 percent of the people were in the faith "until they were converted to Islam by the sword," he said.
"We are being flooded with (ancient) writings," Griggs said, describing many as coming from the biblical New Testament period. Many of the writings, now totaling about 8,000, are on papyri, but others are on metal plates. None are exactly alike, which lends historical credence to the finds.
The apostles scattered throughout the known world and established pockets of Christianity after the time of Jesus Christ, including Egypt, he said. Some of the best early Christian records were found in Egypt, where they survived because of the climate.
The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.
Many of the Christian teachings found in Egyptian digs that are shared in common with Smith's teachings have to do with the temple "and how the heavens can be open to us," Griggs said.
Among those findings is the teaching of baptism by proxy for folks who have died without learning of Christ and his gospel, which centers on the resurrection.
Anciently, baptism was known as a "sealing" to go to heaven, he said. The word "sealing" is used today in LDS temples in similar fashion.
Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.
Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.
"Several of the gospels ... show that revelation was alive and well in the ancient world. Revelation was a keystone," Griggs said.
Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
“Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.”
The article is referring to the Gnostic Gospels. The Book of Judas that received a ton of hype recently is an example. Just as this article says the Gnostics supposedly had secret teachings that only a select few were allowed to know. I just it fascinating the LDS is using heretical writings written several generations after Christ and written several decades or centuries after most historian agreed to Gospels were written to justify LDS teachings. The Early Church fathers railed against the Gnostics as the heretics they were.
The history of the Methodist Church is intersting. Wow - you guys were real holy rollers back in your hay day. But fortunate for you no one is crapping all over your Church and your personal heart-felt beliefs today, well, not that much. Lucky!
Re. Dead Sea Scrolls: “Another nonbiblical document on display through September is “The Alma Scroll,” a lease agreement that dates to after the destruction of the Qumran settlement by Roman soldiers. It describes the transaction of land previously owned by the government of the leader of the second Jewish revolution against the Romans, and it contains the oldest known mention of the name “Alma” outside of the Book of Mormon, where it plays a significant role.”
That is from here: http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/26/faith/21_13_557_19_07.txt
From Isaac Mozeson’s dictionary, “The Word” , the root for Alma is in Hebrew and is found in the OT.
Quote; ALUM(NI) [A]LMOAT Ayin-Lamed-Mem-Vav-Tof
ALM(OS)_or AL-MOTE _______________________[ALM]
ROOTS: ALUMNUS in Latin doesn’t only mean a pupil - graduating or not - but a foster son. The feminine counterpart is ALUMNA.
Similarly, [E]LeM (young man, as in I Samuel 17:56—see “MALE”) is countered by the better known term [A]LMaH (young woman, as in Canticles or Songs 6:8).
ALME, listed in some English dictionaries, is an Arabic term for a dancing girl. It is derived from alimah (learned), implying that the young ladies are ALUMNI from a dance academy.unquote
I find it interesting that you think there is corroboration for Mormonism in the Dead Sea Scrolls, because I am a student of the book of 1 Enoch, as well as of the OT and NT, and there is nothing in 1 Enoch which upholds Mormonism, but rather Mormonism is totally refuted by the contents of 1 Enoch. and 1 Enoch is shown to be the foundational writing for all these doctrines of the OT and NT:
the doctrine of the Trinity;
the doctrine of the Everlasting Lake of Fire;
the doctrine of Adam/Man as a triune being of body, soul, and spirit;
the doctrine of the everlasting lake of fire -the Abyss
[and who it is prepared for and why and who will have a share in it and why];
the doctrine of the Son of Man -who is now come in human being flesh- and the doctrine of His being God who was with God and who was God, who is God the Word/Oath, who created all things, and who is the only Seen image of the Unseen/invisible God, who was to come and in whose name the sons of Adam could be redeemed, and who would restore all things by regeneration and return them to the Father for His Glory to indwell;
the doctrine of hell/sheol beneath the earth as a holding place for the departed souls, until the time appointed for them to come forth;
the doctrine of demons/evil spirits -where they came from and why they roam earth and when they will be removed and how they will be removed and where they will be removed to;
the doctrine of the resurrection of the body [of all born in Adam, for the demons do not get resurrection bodies, as they are disembodied spirits of the sons of God, who were born of the daughters of Adam; and they are the dead who “will not rise”];
the doctrine of the Book of deeds of good and evil;
the doctrine of the Book of Life;
the doctrine of the Throne of Glory which the Son of Man is seated upon;
the doctrine of guardian angels;
the doctrine of the principalities and powers, rulers of darkness and why they rule and when they will be removed and where they will be removed to;
the doctrine of the great tribulation which is to come, and by which all the wicked and godless are to be removed from the earth -forever;
the doctrine of the regeneration of the heavens and the earth;
the doctrine of the City of God in heaven;
the doctrine of the temple of God in heaven;
the doctrine of the archangels;
the doctrine of the watchers;
the doctrine of the satans;
the doctrine of the Cherubim;
the names of the seven chief archangels, and their duties before God.
The doctrine of torment in hell beneath for the departed wicked souls;
the doctrine of the rest and refreshing springs of water for the departed souls who were righteous by faith [who waited there in Sheol beneath earth for the Day of Atonement when hell gave them back at the resurrection of the Son of God, human kind/Jesus the Christ/God come in flesh as Kinsman.
In brief: Enoch refutes all false doctrines about the PErson and work of Jesus Christ, and comfirms the doctrine of Jesus Christ as the Living Oracles committed only to the namesake people of the New Man name [Israel is that name, as the Father calls Him; Isaiah 49], which oracles typed and shdowed His Person and work for all Adamkind -to come, when He was to come, as YHWH, in flesh; and who is the only Person in YHWH whom any created being has ever, does ever, or shall ever, see.
DANG.
Now I need a new keyboard.
“But fortunate for you no one is crapping all over your Church and your personal heart-felt beliefs today, well, not that much. Lucky!”
Visit one of the Methodist threads one day. You’ll get quite a shock. Many of those being critical are Methodists. That’s why the naysayers don’t stick around. Most of them are arguing just to argue. Since we agree with them, they go away.
It’s too big. The only way to appreaciate it is in person. I want to hear the Mormon Tabernacle Quartet.
You recall correctly!
Neither!
As we ALL can see; it goes in CIRCLES!!!
Oh?
How can you TELL unless you SAW them being written?
He COULD have started at the bottom right with SMALL caracters (thinking they wouldn't all fit on the paper, then they got larger as he realised they WOULD fit!
--MormonDude(WOW! This being a FARMS apologist is FUN!)
lol!
Pete and Delmar just been baptized and saved.
I guess I'm the only one that remains unaffiliated.
-- Ulysses Everett McGill
Myself; I'll have to call myself an Areminist - for I can find BOTH points of veiw in the Bible.
To single out ONE of them to the exclusion of the other, is, well, un-Biblical!
)ti fo kniht ot emoc ,eulav ecaf ro(
Actually, it's in KANSAS!
Lucas, to be exact.
Do you KNOW what Joseph Smith 'learned' about PRESBYTERIANISM that was UNTRUE?
After all, you are an EX-Prebyterian; right?
True, if an “angel” wrote it, it all appeared at once.
"We do not indorse the teachings of any so-called Mormons or Latter Day Saints, which are in conflict with the gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as taught in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon. They have departed in a great measure from the faith of the Church of Christ as it was first established, by heeding revelations given through Joseph Smith, who, after being called of God to translate his sacred word--the Book of Mormon--drifted into many errors and gave many revelations to introduce doctrines, ordinances and offices in the church, which are in conflict with Christ's teachings."
-- David Whitmer (an elder in the Church of Christ), 1887
Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.
Just a sampling...........
The two beliefs are mutually exclusive. The Methodists toss in “Falling From Grace” which I think is a bunch of hooey.
When I was a freshman in college, my hall had a Bible Study. We had one Mormon kid on the hall. He attended the Bible Study and I asked him about it. He said “You guys don’t agree on anything”. I told him that was very normal for Protestants. I asked if he stayed for the whole thing and he said he left when they lit the joint. College was a culture shock for him.
“Do you KNOW what Joseph Smith ‘learned’ about PRESBYTERIANISM that was UNTRUE?”
Obviously the mode of government because the Mormons didn’t adopt it.
Because that is ALL them wimps in SLC can do, when their un-faithfullness is brought into the light!
WE; the FUNDAMENTALIST LDS; correctly follow our Scriptures and do NOT shy away from the supposed ALL powerful governments of MAN!
--FundyMormonDude(Did I say they are WIMPS??)
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