Posted on 04/29/2008 6:06:04 AM PDT by restornu
Ancient writings unearthed in the last century and a half, primarily in Egypt, are lending support to doctrines and teachings of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a Brigham Young University professor of antiquities said Sunday.
C. Wilford Griggs, who has written extensively on Egypt and is working on excavating Christian burial grounds in Egypt, said scholars are now admitting that "Joseph Smith got into the antiquities" before experts in the field began their discoveries, but they won't accept his explanation.
Smith, an uneducated farm boy, claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates using instruments given him by an angel, but scholars are refusing to believe that, Griggs said during a fireside, "Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Connection," at the Pleasant Grove Manila Stake Center. Some of the ancient writings have been found in the past few years.
Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book, but as one scholar of antiquities told Griggs, he had no problem with the gold plates and Smith's story would be acceptable "if you'd get rid of that angel."
Anciently, the fountain of Christian knowledge was Egypt and the Mediterranean region and for about 1,000 years 90 percent of the people were in the faith "until they were converted to Islam by the sword," he said.
"We are being flooded with (ancient) writings," Griggs said, describing many as coming from the biblical New Testament period. Many of the writings, now totaling about 8,000, are on papyri, but others are on metal plates. None are exactly alike, which lends historical credence to the finds.
The apostles scattered throughout the known world and established pockets of Christianity after the time of Jesus Christ, including Egypt, he said. Some of the best early Christian records were found in Egypt, where they survived because of the climate.
The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.
Many of the Christian teachings found in Egyptian digs that are shared in common with Smith's teachings have to do with the temple "and how the heavens can be open to us," Griggs said.
Among those findings is the teaching of baptism by proxy for folks who have died without learning of Christ and his gospel, which centers on the resurrection.
Anciently, baptism was known as a "sealing" to go to heaven, he said. The word "sealing" is used today in LDS temples in similar fashion.
Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.
Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.
"Several of the gospels ... show that revelation was alive and well in the ancient world. Revelation was a keystone," Griggs said.
Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
The only trouble is that the examples (and originals) pertain to “everyday” Egyptian stuff - one was how to bury somebody as I recall. But instead of “put spices on the body” (or whatever!) the translation Smith came up with would be something like “And then Moroni led the Nephites to beyond the gates of Narhou and fought the Phelites and gained a mighty victory. They then settled in the land of ....” (Well, not real verses - but you get the idea. As I recall, what should have been a word or two in the Egyptian turned out to be a paragraph or so by Smith).
I also seem to recall that Egyptian Hieroglyphics were all the rage in New York at that time - new discoveries in Egypt, etc.
***Because there is no such thing AS Reformed Eygptian!***
True. John Calvin stopped in Geneva. :)
It would be interesting to see if the hieroglyphs on the golden plates were written from left to right, right to left or top to bottom. Because it is my understanding that NO writing prior to Greek was from left to right.
32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.
34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.
Suggested addition:
"And because that means of interpretation was a convicted fraud's peep stone and a hat, people knoweth not why we believeth. Thus, it is encumbered upon the apostle's of the church to altereth, and altereth, and altereth - less even the LDS faithful fall away (and reverteth back into presbyterianism)."
According to the text, it sounds like the reformed Egyptian was handed down to them and then they altered the reformed Egyptian according to their speech.
It is just too bad there just wasn't enough room on those plates to write in Hebrew! Now you are left with a prophecy of imperfection.
I had never caught that even the LDS scripture claims to be imperfect. So, resty, where exactly are these referenced imperfections?
The only place you'll read that is FARMS. An Egyptologist would laugh in your face with this and the rest of it. Find a non-mormon egyptologist that acknowledges reformed, not propgagandists.
Thanks - fairly clearcut.
Does anyone have a counter arguement?
Where are these valuable plates?
Wouldn’t the seerstone or one of the angels told him how to spell “character”?
An example of hieroglyphic writing is pictured on the left side of the above image. A cursive form of hieroglyphs known as hieratic is on the right side of the image. 
Joseph Smith's 'Caractors' or 'Anthon Transcript'.
Absolutely no comparison whatsoever! One would have to be illiterate, a fool, or completely brainwashed to believe otherwise.
Maybe they could get Dan Rather to fax them something in "reformed Egyptian" from a Kinko's in Texas.
Untrue, I am certain that ALL THREE is also a possibility.
True. Let me revise:
“One would have to be a) illiterate b) a fool c) completely brainwashed or d) all of the above.”
Angels don’t come with spellcheckers.
It’s also worth noting that Smith’s “hieroglyphs” are written from left to right, while ALL OTHER hieroglyphs are from TOP TO BOTTOM. In fact, I am unaware of ANY pre-Grecian writing that was from left to right.
Much better!
If I want to know about the Catholic should I go to a non Catholic or the Luthean site or is I wanted to know about the Baptist should I go to a non Baptist or the Methodist site etc?
Ya’ll dogpile better than anybody I know.
How do you think I feel? I’m a Calvinist and I’m a member of a Methodist Church! My own church says I am wrong.
First of all, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists and Baptists will all acknowledge the existence of the others' claims, even if they disagree with them. Secondly, I am not asking for an expert on Mormonism, I am asking for an expert on ancient Egyptian writings.
Translation, please.
The Encyclopedia Britannica says that:
The lines of hieroglyphs were written from right to left or, less frequently, from left to right. Vertical rows of signs could be placed next to horizontal rows, according to the particular demands of the architectural setting. The direction of the writing is immediately ascertainable because the signs almost always face the beginning of the row.
Joseph Smith’s hieroglyphs don’t appear to have any face (or face value, come to think of it).
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