FLDS Parents Could Face Charges for Abandoning their "Lost Boys"

Some might be offended that you reduce the truth to the level of their understanding!:)

Retsy, it appears you need a 'spirit' lunchbreak. Here's a little morsel to calm the bitterness within you. Enjoy the meal, let it nourish the parched soul within.

I do find it striking that these "lost boys" are given more victimhood status than the young, young girls left behind to face this cult of perverts alone...or so it seems.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

It is terrible what polygamy does to the young ladies like the two you see in this picture. I cannot imagine what it must be like for a girl entering puberty, to begin to think about finding the right young man, and then be handed over to a man she does not know who is 30 years her senior so she can bear his children.

And we need to remember the lady in the center of the photo, Flora Jessup. She risks her life every time she rescues a child bride because of the doctrine of Blood Atonement. (I believe she has a contract on her head at the present time from at least one polygamous group). She also risks prosecution for crimes such as kidnapping and child abduction every time she saves a young lady.

You can read more about Flora HERE and you can see a compelling video about the effects of polygamy HERE.

you can see a compelling video about the effects of olygamy HERE.

Thank you; watching now.

Zak,

It is sad to see the human toll of polygamy, as it
is played out in the lives of young mormon girls.

ampu

~”If they were really acting scripturally, they’d act as Jesus commanded his disciples in Mark 6. But arguing is so much fun....”~

Yeah, these are the so-called Christians to whom Ghandi seems to have been referring when he said:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
and
“If it weren’t for Christians, I’d be a Christian.”~

They certainly don’t seem to emulate Christ in their rantings about the Christianity of others.

~”I feel for you guys. You all have to take it as much, if not more, than we Catholics do...”~

Perhaps, but sympathy’s not necessary. I’m sure you become stronger and more knowledgeable in your faith every time you defend it. Same way for us.

The people we’re talking about, though, are always on the attack. They may become very good at attacking other faiths, but they are never forced to examine their own religious convictions. The result? We get stronger, they remain weak.

Spirit-filled Christians: Putting the Christ back into Christian.

Yeah, these are the so-called Christians to whom Ghandi seems to have been referring when he said: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Aren't you glad now that you're not a Christian?

Some important quotations from the video:

"When growing up, didn't celebrate Christmas, celebrated Joseph Smith's birthday (December 23, 1805)"

"polygamy will be practiced in eternity"

"Polygamy widespread and becoming moreso across the country"

Original Mormonism

Question: Who follows teachings of Joseph Smith more closely: mainstream or fundalmentalists?

Joseph Smith married Emma Hayes 1827

Wrote "NEW AND EVERLASTING COVENANT"
1843: Plurality of wives required (enable men to become
gods; D&C, Section 132; p. 266): "new revelation"

Doctrines & Covenants (D&C) Section 132:52

"And let mine handmaid Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph Smith."

"Shows Joseph Smith WAS ALREADY practicing polygamy, which behavior went against the original D&C in print at time", which stated:

D&C 1836 ed.
"Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe that one man shall have one wife."

Polygamy against the law in Illinois at the time.

One year after "new revelations," Joseph Smith denied being a polygamist:

"What a thing it is for a man to b accused of committing adultery and having seven wives, when I can only find one."

~ Joseph Smith

It is documented that Joseph Smith had at least 33 beyond his legal wife (Emma Hayes); 10 were teenagers; youngest was 15 years old.

Joseph Smith's polygamy was exposed in a local newspaper (Nauvoo Expositor); in retaliation, he ordered the printing press destroyed, which landed him in jail.

All 15 top Mormon leaders were polygamists (read their sermons Journals of Discourses).

"The only men who become gods, even the sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy...Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned."
~ Brigham Young, "prophet" Journal of Discourses, 11:269

"This doctrine of...plural marriage, is one of the most important doctrines ever revealed to man in any age of the world...Without it we never could be exalted to associate with and become gods."
~ Joseph F. Smith, "prophet", Journal of Discourses, 21:9

"The principle of plurality of wives never will be done away with...You might as well deny Mormonism, and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives."
~ Heber C. Kimball, "apostle", Journal of Discourses, 5:203

"God the Father had a plurality of wives..."
Orson Pratt, "apostle", The Seer, p. 172

According to Mormons, "God and Jesus were both polygamists."

Mormon Church went public on its polygamy in 1852 and the US government began to crack down on its polygamy.

1876: Mormon Church removed D&C scripture which called polygamy a crime and fornication. This resolved the contradiction between their D&C scripture and their practice.

1,000 Mormon men arrested by US government which were stepping up efforts to eradicate polygamy.

1890: Manifesto (a statement denouncing polygamy)

"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

WHAT HAPPENED TO PLURAL MARRIAGE ON EARTH, as stated by Joseph Smith, the "prophet", being EVERLASTING?

Was Joseph Smith WRONG????????
A TRUE Prophet of God is 100% right, 100% of the time!

Where is the Scripture that allows Joseph Smith to break God's SEVENTH COMMANDMENT concerning ADULTERY? He was in ~10 adulterous relationships (polyandrous marriages: meaning, 10 marriages to women who were already married to men still living and to whom they were still married)

This is why the fundamentalists broke away from the mainstream Mormons.

Can look at graves of early church people and see that people continued being polygamists, contrary to the Manifesto: wives are mentioned on tombstones in Salt Lake City, including: John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, the author of the Manifesto, Lorenzo Snow, and Joseph F. Smith).....just like Warren Jeffs.

One cannot watch this video and not feel compassion on these women who have been abused through the polygamous marriages in which they lived....and from which they now state that they are happy to be away from.

Thanks for the video

What wickedness...

What an abomination...

Josephb Smith has a lot to answer for...

The spirit of lust that controlled Joseph Smith was an unclean spirit that was not of the God of the Bible...

The spirit of lust that controlled Joseph Smith was an unclean spirit that was not of the God of the Bible...

Adultery, fornication, lust, deceit, and lies, never come from the Lord. It is a mockery, and blasphemous, against the Lord to say it is.

The absence of justification for Smith’s adulterous behavior is telling. Except for the occasional sad one who seeks to condone it as if God ordained it for a season, like He sets His Commandments aside for Joe Smith, peepstone false prophet and tried conman.

One cannot watch this video and not feel compassion on these women who have been abused through the polygamous marriages in which they lived....and from which they now state that they are happy to be away from.

C'mon...These women just don't know what is good for them!

Just ask Old Mountain man...he posted that polygamy was not abusive to the females involved - see post#'s 88, 89, 1033 and 1037 on this thread.

Thanks for the ping!

Wednesday, February 20, 2008

I Do Not Like Your Christians

A skeptic quoted the famous words of Mahatma Ghandi, when he said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." The cynic no doubt did this to illustrate that all Christians are nothing but hypocrites, and that’s why he rejects the gospel. However, a close look at what Ghandi said reveals two interesting things.

First, no one is like Jesus Christ. He was sinless. If you think you can be like Him, try living like Him for one day. For one day fulfill the moral Law by loving God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as much as you love yourself. That means you will not lust, hate, lie, steal, think a selfish thought or say an idle word. You will be perfect, in thought, word and in deed. On top of that, you will walk in perfect humility of heart. If you think Ghandi did that, read on.

Second, the Bible doesn’t tell us to place our trust in sinful man. In fact, it says not to (see Psalm 146:3). It instead commands that we repent and trust alone in Jesus Christ. This was something it seems Ghandi failed to do. So his liking of Jesus wasn’t deep enough for him to believe what He said. Jesus warned that if we die in our sins, we will end up in Hell. What a tragedy that Ghandi didn’t find any help in his own hopeless religion. He lamented, "It is constant torture to me that I am still so far from God whom I know to be my very life and being. I know it is my own wretchedness and wickedness that keeps me from him."

Do you suppose Ray Freeps?... He’s probably in Australia writing that blog. Way of The Master Radio is a great afternoon listen 3 to 5 PM, Eastern (wayofthemasterradio.com). Todd Friel has a great radio voice; knows his Bible, too!

. They may become very good at attacking other faiths, but they are never forced to examine their own religious convictions.

TRANSLATION:

They won't waste their time chasing down all these red herrings we keep tossing out.

1890: Manifesto (a statement denouncing polygamy)

"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

The Mormon church Organization; based in Salt Lake City, does not practice Polygamy any more.

They decided to stop the practice for fear of losing all their worldly goods.

It was banned in 1890!.

OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

What kind of 'Leadership' is THIS???

compared to...

Hebrews 11:35-40
35. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
36. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
37. They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
38. the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

They certainly don’t seem to emulate Christ in their rantings about the Christianity of others.

You mean the way you are ranting now?

Actually, no it isn’t, because the doctrine and histories and teachings of LDS support these groups.

Do you think the bible supports the fact that God hates homosexuals? (Hint: Yes, it does.) Yet you won't see Baptists going about protesting that everywhere like Phelps and his 'Baptist' crew do.

I'm also not aware of the teaching in the LDS doctrines and covenants and other official documents that call for kicking teenaged boys out of the community. Can you please point that out?