Posted on 09/15/2007 11:47:41 AM PDT by restornu
Click Video- Learn how DNA was able to sort out and match the DDS fragments
LOL, there you go again, saying it's an error. The burden of proof is on you my FRiend. ALL accounts prior to the Times and Seasons paper speak of Moroni, so you have a hard job ahead of you.
Until then, I am wasting your time, not mine.
so you are discounting the words of Jude as well?
BTW, I think it interesting speculation about the Pyramids being the pillars of Enoch, but IMO, that’s all it is, speculation. Enoch was translated into heaven before the flood, and Egyptus and Ham settled Egypt.
What I have heard in several places in Hebrew lore is that the pillars were hidden underneath Mount Moriah, and when Solomon build the temple there, he discovered them, received the ancient knowledge, and hid them up again.
Who knows, I’m sure one day we will all find out.
Dontchaknow, when we defend, we offend!
Speaking of which, Asparagus was just banned for not supporting Fred Thompson, or so I gather. Anyone know why? I think someone summoned the mods on him, but I don’t know the reason.
Anyone know??
I agree with you that the time line is off. The Lord knows where all of the ancient writings are located and he will bring them to the light of the world in his due course.
I will be interested to see the evidence from those manuscripts themselves that they were placed there principally to preserve them (and I would not try to deny that some of them may have been in fact placed there to protect them). But in my reading, I have not come upon anything so conclusive in that regard. And not all genuine scholars of the Scrolls, evidently, are in agreement on that
What you have written in the paragraph I quoted above is on the human level, and true, as it does not take into account any Divine Superintendence of the process. What I believe are the promises of God to preserve His Words. The Scriptures that promise preservation of Scripture are even more numerous than those stating Divine Inspiration of Scripture.
I believe the reason of frequency in the preservation references to be that “Inspiration” would be a useless doctrine unless God PRESERVES that which He had Inspired. If a man quotes a verse that states that God gave the Bible by inspiration, it is useless in the scenario as you lay it out in your paragraph. BUT if God is Superintending the process, it is not merely on the human level.
I believe, however, that God had preserved His words through manuscripts that are in motion, open, being copied and being used on a continuing basis. I believe that this has been the case for both the Old and New Testaments. When Divine Superintendence is at work in the matter of Preservation (God promised to preserve), therefore, it is actually possible to find relatively late dated manuscripts that are accurate and correct earlier manuscripts that were corrupted. God is not bound by the “earlier-later” debate. God is not bound by time. But I do believe God’s promises to Preserve His Words.
The Scriptures from which “God Manifest in the Flesh,” (God the Son) Jesus Christ, read in the synagogues and Temple in Israel during His earthly ministry were (are) of much higher value than the Dead Sea Scrolls. That’s my position. And I also believe that there are Scriptures today of equal accuracy that were printed this week.
I don’t approach these subjects from a naturalistic or humanistic mind set. I believe that God still ACTIVELY PRESERVES His Words, and will continue to do so beyond the day that heaven and earth passes away. (Matthew 24:35; Psalm 12:6, 7; etc.).
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is my Savior, my personal Savior, Redeemer, the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, and I love Him with all my heart. He died once and for all. It was Heavenly Father’s plan and the Holy Ghost tells me it’s true.
I don’t know why that is controversial.
I dont know why that is controversial.
Is that controversial? I'm not aware of anyone suggesting that it is. Perhaps you can point me to the post where it was suggested that having a personal relationship with Christ is "controversial". Some Mormons might consider a personal relationship with Christ "controversial" or in error. If you claim a personal relationship with the Savior, then God bless you!
The controversial points I was referring to are things like "God was once a man" and "men can become gods". Do you personally reject such ideas?
If that's what you believe, and you believe that God (the Father) and Jehovah are 2 completely different people, why would you say that Moses saw God Father in an effort to prove that Joseph Smith saw God the Father?
Don't worry. You are certainly not the first Mormon to pull that. ;-)
Absolutely. I believe the Bible (and even the Book of Mormon) when it says THERE IS ONE GOD. So, if Jehovah is God and the Father is God, then they must make up 2 part of the Trinity - ONE GOD. When you introduce Mormon theology which states that God and Jesus are 2 different gods is when the confusion starts.
Where did you get the idea that I'm not CURRENT on LDS scriptures? Didn't I go to great lengths to show that the CURRENT LDS Church has completely rejected their previous SCRIPTURES? What part of that did you miss? THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT of my post - that the LDS Church has had serious doctrinal difficulties and changes with regard to the nature of God(s).
Hey, maybe next week the LDS Church will change their minds again and you'll be arguing against the position you CURRENTly hold.
So, by your reasoning, if I've always treated you kindly in these threads, then write something that accuses you of being a serial rapist, I should not be called to account for my words?
Why do you always try to link things together that are different?
Would you discount the Scriptures that SATAN was refering to when talking to Jesus in the wilderness, just because he used them??
Sounds like a prequel to the DaVinci Code!
Where is this 'promise' found?
It's not.
It's all the other stuff that is.
I truly believe no 'pulling' is intended.
It appears to me that their minds are so compartmentalized that the conflicting data never gets placed next to each other.
1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.
6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fullness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fullness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.
7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.
9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?
10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?
11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?
12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandmentthat no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.
13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.
14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto themYe shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depthsthen shall it be written in the Lambs book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.
22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.
23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
24 This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.
28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the law of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.
29 Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.
30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loinsfrom whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Josephwhich were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.
32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.
33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.
34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.
35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, commanded it.
36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill . Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness .
37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
39 Davids wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.
40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an appointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.
41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.
And THIS is how Everlasting (ahem) was ended....
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To Whom It May Concern:
Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy
I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.
One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.
WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:
I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.
The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.
Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.
President Heber J. Grant
I bear witnessand I know that the witness I bear is truethat the men and women who have been absolutely honest with God, who have paid their one-tenth God has given them wisdom whereby they have been able to utilize the remaining nine-tenths, and it has been of greater value to them, and they have accomplished more with it than they would if they had not been honest with the Lord
(West, Profiles of the Presidents, 1972 ed., p. 231).
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