Posted on 08/24/2007 4:35:33 PM PDT by NYer
A little six-year-old Protestant boy had often heard his Catholic companions reciting the prayer "Hail Mary." He liked it so much that he copied it, memorized it and would recite it every day. "Look, Mommy, what a beautiful prayer," he said to his mother one day.
"Never again say it," answered the mother. "It is a superstitious prayer of Catholics who adore idols and think Mary a goddess. After all, she is a woman like any other. Come on, take this Bible and read it. It contains everything that we are bound to do and have to do." From that day on the little boy discontinued his daily "Hail Mary" and gave himself more time to reading the Bible instead.
One day, while reading the Gospel, he came across the passage about the Annunciation of the Angel to Our Lady. Full of joy, the little boy ran to his mother and said: "Mommy, I have found the 'Hail Mary' in the Bible which says: 'Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women.' Why do you call it a superstitious prayer?"
On another occasion he found that beautiful Salutation of St. Elizabeth to the Virgin Mary and the wonderful canticle MAGNIFICAT in which Mary foretold that "the generations would call her blessed."
He said no more about it to his mother but started to recite the "Hail Mary" every day as before. He felt pleasure in addressing those charming words to the Mother of Jesus, our Savior.
When he was fourteen, he one day heard a discussion on Our Lady among the members of his family. Every one said that Mary was a common woman like any other woman. The boy, after listening to their erroneous reasoning could not bear it any longer, and full of indignation, he interrupted them, saying:
"Mary is not like any other children of Adam, stained with sin. No! The Angel called her FULL OF GRACE AND BLESSED AMONGST WOMEN. Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and consequently Mother of God. There is no higher dignity to which a creature can be raised. The Gospel says that the generations will proclaim her blessed and you are trying to despise her and look down on her. Your spirit is not the spirit of the Gospel or of the Bible which you proclaim to be the foundation of the Christian religion."
So deep was the impression which the boy's talk had made that his mother many times cried out sorrowfully: "Oh my God! I fear that this son of mine will one day join the Catholic religion, the religion of Popes!" And indeed, not very long afterwards, having made a serious study of both Protestantism and Catholicism, the boy found the latter to be the only true religion and embraced it and became one of its most ardent apostles.
Some time after his conversion, he met his married sister who rebuked him and said indignantly: "You little know how much I love my children. Should any one of them desire to become a Catholic, I would sooner pierce his heart with a dagger than allow him to embrace the religion of the Popes!"
Her anger and temper were as furious as those of St. Paul before his conversion. However, she would change her ways, just as St. Paul did on his way to Damascus. It so happened that one of her sons fell dangerously ill and the doctors gave up hope of recovery. Her brother then approached her and spoke to her affectionately, saying:
"My dear sister, you naturally wish to have your child cured. Very well, then, do what I ask you to do. Follow me, let us pray one 'Hail Mary' and promise God that, if your son recovers his health, you would seriously study the Catholic doctrine, and should you come to the conclusion that Catholicism is the only true religion, you would embrace it no matter what the sacrifices may be."
His sister was somewhat reluctant at the beginning, but as she wished for her son's recovery, she accepted her brother's proposal and recited the "Hail Mary" together with him. The next day her son was completely cured. The mother fulfilled her promise and she studied the Catholic doctrine. After long preparation she received Baptism together with her whole family, thanking her brother for being an apostle to her.
The story was related during a sermon given by the Rev. Fr. Tuckwell. "Brethren," he went on and said, "the boy who became a Catholic and converted his sister to Catholicism dedicated his whole life to the service of God. He is the priest who is speaking to you now! What I am I owe to Our Lady. You, too, my dear brethren, be entirely dedicated also to Our Lady and never let a day pass without saying the beautiful prayer, 'Hail Mary', and your Rosary. Ask her to enlighten the minds of Protestants who are separated from the true Church of Christ founded on the Rock (Peter) and 'against whom the gates of hell shall never prevail.'"
Not that I see, but the traditions might suggest something like that. I mean, if Irenaeus said that Jesus died as a 50 year old man, and the Apostles taught that, who knows what can be dug up.
But the scriptures give the same ‘full of grace’ to Stephen at his death. And using the RCC interpretation of that phrase...
Of course, (I know, here comes the old anti-Catholic chesnut, still unanswered here) Luke makes certain truth claims at the beginning of his gospel which would put RCC and Orthodox tradition on its ear. What does Luke mean when he writes:
Luke 1:3it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus;4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.(NASB), or perhaps you prefer from the online Catholic bible (http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=42)
3I in my turn, after carefully going over the whole story from the beginning, have decided to write an ordered account for you, Theophilus,
4so that your Excellency may learn how well founded the teaching is that you have received.
So, in his ordered account, to show his Excellency, Theophilus the well founded traditions that he was taught, Luke accidently skipped the whole Marion de fide Catholic doctrines? Boy, Luke needs to get somebody else to write for him...Poor Theophilus had to wait for someone to orally teach him, as Luke cannot seem to put such important de fide info into his inspired book.
Of course I always have heard some LIBERAL Catholics say that tradition is like “an acorn, that grows into a oak”. But that makes it seem that the traditions are somewhat new, and don’t go back 2000 years.
I know, I know, I am just an anti-Catholic, and my arguments can just be dismissed. Ignore the truth, and say that I am just being ‘Wrathful’ ‘Hateful’ and ‘spitting venom at the Holy Virgin Mother and Her Church’...
I will sit down and shut up.
Me?
Sarcastic?
Nonesense. I am as pure as the driven snow.
FUN TIME:
And what was the Ark (of Noah) covered with? What is another word that is translated from the Hebrew word for ‘pitch, or tar’?
First person to answer gets a big ATTABOY, or GIRL! and one free post without a sarcastic or critical
I must admit I find the Romanist purposeful anti-non-Romanist-Christian postings very tiresome. For every non-Romanist Christian who becomes a Romanist, of all levels of eduction, religious or otherwise, I can find five ex-Romanists who first heard the good news of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ in a non-Romanist Church.
So go ahead, follow your pope, your ceremonies, your Latin, and your man-made tradition, I’ll follow Jesus.
Second, Jesus, Himself, was asked how to pray, and responded with what we now know as the Lord's Prayer.The ONLY prayer we are allowed is the Our Father?
You may have an abridged version of the Bible. Perhaps a Protestant one?
Never fear, the online NAB has Luke 1:
26
10 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
27
to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin’s name was Mary.
28
And coming to her, he said, “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.”
29
But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
30
Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32
He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
33
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
34
But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 12
35
And the angel said to her in reply, “The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
36
And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived 13 a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;
37
for nothing will be impossible for God.”
38
Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her.
39
During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,
40
where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.
41
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me?
44
For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45
Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
46
And Mary said: 16 “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
49
The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
50
His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
51
He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
53
The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
54
He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
55
according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
56
Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home.
57
17 When the time arrived for Elizabeth to have her child she gave birth to a son.
58
Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown his great mercy toward her, and they rejoiced with her.
59
18 When they came on the eighth day to circumcise the child, they were going to call him Zechariah after his father,
60
but his mother said in reply, “No. He will be called John.”
61
But they answered her, “There is no one among your relatives who has this name.”
62
So they made signs, asking his father what he wished him to be called.
63
He asked for a tablet and wrote, “John is his name,” and all were amazed.
64
Immediately his mouth was opened, his tongue freed, and he spoke blessing God.
65
Then fear came upon all their neighbors, and all these matters were discussed throughout the hill country of Judea.
66
All who heard these things took them to heart, saying, “What, then, will this child be?” For surely the hand of the Lord was with him.
67
Then Zechariah his father, filled with the holy Spirit, prophesied, saying:
68
19 “Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has visited and brought redemption to his people.
69
20 He has raised up a horn for our salvation within the house of David his servant,
70
even as he promised through the mouth of his holy prophets from of old:
71
salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us,
72
to show mercy to our fathers and to be mindful of his holy covenant
73
and of the oath he swore to Abraham our father, and to grant us that,
74
rescued from the hand of enemies, without fear we might worship him
75
in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
76
And you, child, will be called prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord 21 to prepare his ways,
77
to give his people knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
78
because of the tender mercy of our God by which the daybreak from on high 22 will visit us
79
to shine on those who sit in darkness and death’s shadow, to guide our feet into the path of peace.”
80
The child grew and became strong in spirit, and he was in the desert until the day of his manifestation to Israel.
Sorry, Otto. You might wish to listen and learn.
But the scriptures give the same ‘full of grace’ to Stephen at his death.Nope, not 'the same'. There has only ever been ONE Mother of God. Only one.
The atoning work that the sacrifices at the Ark were not perfect, but merely foreshadowed by Christ, Who’s sacrifice is perfect and needs never to happen again. And again. And if you miss Mass, it is a mortal sin!
Ah, thats right, it is Mary in wooden form. So, yeah, its worship leads to damnation, and all the Catholics say “Amen!”?
What is the upper limit to the prayers to Mary before they reach status of idolatry? Can there be an upper limit? Do you know, right now, that Mary is the co-redemptrix? Or is it still not required belief?
If the Pope declares it a de fide doctrine, are you just going to say that the unchanging Church always believed this (for 2000 years), and it was taught by the apostles?
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part III: Tradition and Church (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part II: Doubts (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part I: Darkness(Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Matt Enloe (former Baptist) [prepare to be amazed!]
THE ORTHODOX REVIVAL IN RUSSIA
Conversion Story - David Finkelstein (former Jew)
Conversion Story - John Weidner (former Evangelical)
12 Reasons I Joined the Catholic Church
Conversion Story - Tom Hunt
The Tide Is Turning Toward Catholicism: The Converts
John Calvin Made Me Catholic
Journey Home - May 21 - Neil Babcox (former Presbyterian) - A minister encounters Mary
Going Catholic - Six journeys to Rome
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church
From Calvinist to Catholic
A Convert's Pilgrimage [Christopher Cuddy]
From Pastor to Parishioner: My Love for Christ Led Me Home (to the Catholic Church) [Drake McCalister]
Lutheran professor of philosophy prepares to enter Catholic Church
Patty Bonds (former Baptist and sister of Dr. James White) to appear on The Journey Home - May 7
Pastor and Flock Become Catholics
The journey back - Dr. Beckwith explains his reasons for returning to the Catholic Church
Famous Homosexual Italian Author Returned to the Church Before Dying of AIDS
Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
Catholic Converts - Stephen K. Ray (former Evangelical)
Catholic Converts - Malcolm Muggeridge
Catholic Converts - Richard John Neuhaus
Catholic Converts - Avery Cardinal Dulles
Catholic Converts - Israel (Eugenio) Zolli - Chief Rabbi of Rome
Catholic Converts - Robert H. Bork , American Jurist (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Converts - Marcus Grodi
Why Converts Choose Catholicism
The Scott Hahn Conversion Story
FORMER PENTECOSTAL RELATES MIRACLE THAT OCCURRED WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD
John Calvin Made Me Catholic
Journey Home - May 21 - Neil Babcox (former Presbyterian) - A minister encounters Mary
Going Catholic - Six journeys to Rome
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church
From Calvinist to Catholic
A Convert's Pilgrimage [Christopher Cuddy]
From Pastor to Parishioner: My Love for Christ Led Me Home (to the Catholic Church) [Drake McCalister]
Lutheran professor of philosophy prepares to enter Catholic Church
Patty Bonds (former Baptist and sister of Dr. James White) to appear on The Journey Home - May 7
Pastor and Flock Become Catholics
The journey back - Dr. Beckwith explains his reasons for returning to the Catholic Church
Famous Homosexual Italian Author Returned to the Church Before Dying of AIDS
Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
Catholic Converts - Stephen K. Ray (former Evangelical)
Catholic Converts - Malcolm Muggeridge
Catholic Converts - Richard John Neuhaus
Catholic Converts - Avery Cardinal Dulles
Catholic Converts - Israel (Eugenio) Zolli - Chief Rabbi of Rome
Catholic Converts - Robert H. Bork , American Jurist (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Converts - Marcus Grodi
Why Converts Choose Catholicism
How I led Catholics Out of the Church [Steve Wood]
The Scott Hahn Conversion Story
FORMER PENTECOSTAL RELATES MIRACLE THAT OCCURRED WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD
So go ahead, follow your pope, your ceremonies, your Latin, and your man-made tradition, I’ll follow Jesus.
If you follow Our Lord then you will: 1 - Honor His Word, 2 - Honor His Mother, 3 - Obey Him and His Apostolic Vicars, 4 - Eat His Flesh and Drink His BloodI hope you do these things, for the Love of God.
You may hear about it. But where do you find it?
C’mon aboard. We’ll take the abuse and and tirades. Jesus has given us our mission. We have not assumed a station beyond our authority.
Our authority comes from Jesus Christ. From which orifice doth yours?
Like I said, just ignore my arguments but I appreciate you know at least a bit of the gospel.
I greatly admire the Virgin, Mary. She was a great woman, above all women! But, Stephan was pretty great too! Hey, he was full of grace too!
What does Luke 1:3-4 say, (and you can make it a Catholic translation too...)?
Aren’t they cute?
I know, and only one first martyr of Christ Jesus.
Do we have a full of grace prayer for poor Stephan? Or does he just get a saints day?
“I greatly admire the Virgin, Mary. She was a great woman, above all women!”
Indeed, congratulations, you progress.
I ask Saint Stephen to pray for me daily, as I do the Madonna. And I pray for many who are alive today, as I will for you.
Sorry, I will sit down and you can ignore my arguments and show that you cannot defend your faith.
Son, you really haven’t made an argument; just a general statement.
With that said, the opening of Luke’s gospel is very interesting. It is the only one of the synoptic gospels to begin with a literary prologue. Making use of a formal, literary construction and vocabulary, the author writes the prologue in imitation of Hellenistic Greek writers and, in so doing, relates his story about Jesus to contemporaneous Greek and Roman literature. Luke is not only interested in the words and deeds of Jesus, but also in the larger context of the birth, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus as the fulfillment of the promises of God in the Old Testament. As a second-or third-generation Christian, Luke acknowledges his debt to earlier eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, but claims that his contribution to this developing tradition is a complete and accurate account, told in an orderly anner, and intended to provide Theophilus (”friend of God,” literally) and other readers with certainty about earlier teachings they have received.
I’m still unaware of any arguments that you are making.
Also, you have claimed that Luke skipped the whole Mary thing.
Luke is where the bulk of the Mary thing happens. Stopping before Luke launches into it is either disingenuous or else trolling.
Let’s see; how hairy are you and do you live under a bridge...
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