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Our Mormon Brothers?
Reformed Evangelist ^ | May 14th, 2007 | Jeff Fuller

Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock

Mormon Evangelists

The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:

The First Vision

Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:

That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.

This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)

And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,

Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)

How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:

14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.

15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).

What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.

While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)

————————————————-

(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.

(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:

The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.

(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:

This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).

(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: apologetics; boggsforgovernor; brothers; christianity; lds; mormon; mormonism; orthodoxy
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To: DelphiUser; restornu
I have what i have and I seek af ther what I yet lack, Yes, apperances to the contrary not withstanding, I am keenly aware of my shortcomings. I asume that everyone on this forum is aware of their own shortcomings, maybe that is an error, but I will assume it none the less. I couldn't do it again on a bet, Sorry.

Ya just did..!!!

ROFLOL!!!! You guy's are crazy..funny to the 9th degree.....

1,141 posted on 07/13/2007 6:11:02 PM PDT by Osage Orange (“To call illegal aliens, undocumented workers, is like calling drug dealers unlicensed pharmacists.”)
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To: restornu; DelphiUser
We are night and day in our style of posting how Osage Orange makes that leap is amuzing!:)

Obviously you aren't paying attention....

But then again, maybe you are.....

1,142 posted on 07/13/2007 6:14:14 PM PDT by Osage Orange (“To call illegal aliens, undocumented workers, is like calling drug dealers unlicensed pharmacists.”)
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To: colorcountry; DelphiUser

You heard of rino, will there are mino and cino.

When folks who are Baptist or Catholic, Calvinst etc they never report ones faith only the LDS!


1,143 posted on 07/13/2007 6:18:21 PM PDT by restornu (Romney keeps his eyes on the mission, and not on those who attacks his campaign!)
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To: DelphiUser
Get a grip, obviously your post touched a nerve, let wounds heal, even if it's slow, oh and play nice, look both ways before you cross the street, and wash your hands often...

Please walk when you have scissors. Leave the mud outside of the house. Return your trays and seat backs to the upright position! :)
1,144 posted on 07/13/2007 6:25:03 PM PDT by Truth-Miner (The Child in us desires Truth to bend to our perspective, may we all be Adults.)
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To: colorcountry

So I’ll wait for my friend to get divorced then attend his church, to hear faith promoting stories, think about marriage, read post 1131 hear the sad stories, then decide against marriage anyway.
[sarcasm] OK [/sarcasm]


1,145 posted on 07/13/2007 6:31:36 PM PDT by Truth-Miner (The Child in us desires Truth to bend to our perspective, may we all be Adults.)
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To: Osage Orange

I meant to ping you too, originally. Sorry about that


1,146 posted on 07/13/2007 7:18:02 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: Osage Orange

Well one of us is a he and the other is a she!:)


1,147 posted on 07/13/2007 7:32:57 PM PDT by restornu (Romney keeps his eyes on the mission, and not on those who attacks his campaign!)
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To: DelphiUser
No, we are not going to post our Sacred ceremonies on the web, sorry.

I guess you guys ARE more sacreder than us mere 'not quite believers in the restored gospel yet'ters; 'cause we'll post ANYTHING ya want to know!

1,148 posted on 07/13/2007 7:33:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

Is this answer a YES or a NO?


1,149 posted on 07/13/2007 7:34:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
When Lucifer left the fold to do his own thing is he not an out cast to the Heavenly Father an enemy?

Gosh; it's kinda hard to tell; for he's ALWAYS spouting 'scripture'!

1,150 posted on 07/13/2007 7:35:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger

It’s been real dry here in central Indiana, too.


1,151 posted on 07/13/2007 7:37:02 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Girl
Unfortunately the rites have been posted on the Internet by others.

Why is it considered by you to be 'unfortunate'?

Is the sacredness somehow diminished by outsiders seeing them?

1,152 posted on 07/13/2007 7:42:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MHGinTN

Thank you oh so very much for those beautiful Scriptures!


1,153 posted on 07/13/2007 8:56:38 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Utah Girl

“Unfortunately the rites have been posted on the Internet by others. We keep going over the same ground, they are sacred to us and we won’t post them on lds.org or anywhere else and we don’t talk about them outside the temple.”

The best secret Mormon ritual is when they dress up as chickens and do the Chicken dance, pecking out hieroglyphics of Joseph Smith’s name in corn kernels on the floor. After that, the “Chicken Dance Orgy” occurs, but the details of that are too graphic to relate here.


1,154 posted on 07/13/2007 9:54:42 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote; Utah Girl
No, that's the Baptist Youth Ministry, led by the Preacher's daughter every Saturday night down by the riverbend, after potluck.

But it's all hush-hush, so let's not go there.

1,155 posted on 07/14/2007 5:06:47 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: colorcountry
So are you implying that the one ex-mormon is indicative of all ex-Mormons?

No, I was saying that you shouldn't believe everything you hear, only half of what you read and nothing on the Internet where people don't source.

The liability any Church would bear if leaders were actively promoting divorce is one good reason to disbelieve this story, or at least seek confirmation.

So you have an Ex-Mormon (not a dishonest person, but not a reccomendation either).
This person spends their time posting on Ex-Mormon.org or some such, odds are they are not well adjusted at this point in their life.
This person is also a divorcee (odds of being well adjusted just went down).
This person blames his or her Ex-Church for his / her divorce (The It's not my/b> fault thing divorcees do, so lower your odds).
Now this person is saying something that if true would get an institution (that has lots of money) sued, and yet there is no ongoing suit.
I'm sorry but anyone who takes that at face value needs a keeper.

That's what I am saying, just think about it.
1,156 posted on 07/14/2007 7:11:44 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: restornu; Osage Orange
Well one of us is a he and the other is a she!:)

Before anyone asks, I'm a he.

LOL!
1,157 posted on 07/14/2007 7:15:00 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Elsie
I guess you guys ARE more sacreder than us mere 'not quite believers in the restored gospel yet'ters; 'cause we'll post ANYTHING ya want to know!

OK, Lets see...
Name (your real one)
Social Security Number
Birthday
Address (the one you use on Credit cards)
Credit card numbers (and don't forget the three digit number from the back)
Bank account numbers and balances

There are some things it's just not smart to post on the Internet, you know? Besides they have been posted by liars why would we want to compete with them?

(you see in order to go to the temple, you are asked to covenant with God to keep the proceedings sacred and not reveal them, you are asked to do this of your own free will or not participate. Therefore all who have received these ordinances have promised God and every one else in the room they will not reveal them. if they do, how can you trust what they say, for they are already lying to God.)
1,158 posted on 07/14/2007 7:23:42 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Utah Binger
What's a Binger? (placemark)
1,159 posted on 07/14/2007 7:28:12 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: Elsie
Is the sacredness somehow diminished by outsiders seeing them?

In a word, Yes.

There is also the little matter of the covenants being broken by the one who revealed them.

Almost funnier than that BTW is I have seen three different versions on the Internet, each of them has part of the ceremony wrong, so you will never know how accurate what you are reading is. (The one with children being sacrificed on the alter, it's wrong too.)
1,160 posted on 07/14/2007 7:29:51 AM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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