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The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper
Catholic Biblical Apologetics ^ | July 23, 2004 | Paul Flanagan and Robert Schihl

Posted on 06/10/2007 4:48:46 AM PDT by markomalley

Roman Catholic Christians share with most Christians the faith that Jesus Christ, on the night he was betrayed, ate a final or last supper with his Apostles. This final meal was also the celebration of the Jewish Passover or Feast of the Unleavened Bread which commemorated the passing over of the Jews from the death in slavery to the Egyptians to life in the Promised Land.

Christians differ in the meaning this Last Supper has to them and the Church today. Catholic Christians together with other historical Christian Churches (e.g., Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Christians, Lutherans, Anglicans and some Episcopalians, etc.) believe the literal words of Jesus - that the bread and wine are truly his body and blood. Other later Christian Churches profess a mere symbolic meaning to the words of Jesus.

The faith of the Catholic Church is based on both a fundamental principle of hermeneutics and the constant faith of the Church from Apostolic times.

The Catholic Church teaches that the first principle of hermeneutics--the science of the translation and interpretation of the Bible--is the literal meaning of the text.

Spiritus Paraclitus Benedict XV, September 15, 1920
As Jerome insisted, all biblical interpretation rests upon the literal sense ...
Divino Afflante Spiritus, Pius XII, September 30, 1943
... discern and define that sense of the biblical words which is called literal ... so that the mind of the author may be made clear. ... the exegete must be principally concerned with the literal sense of the Scriptures.

The definition of the literal sense:
The sense which the human author directly intended and which his words convey.

The first writer of the New Testament was the apostle Paul. His Letter to the Corinthians was written as early as 56 AD, earlier than the first Gospel, Mark's, written about 64 AD. Paul was also not an eyewitness to what he wrote but testifies to his source.

1 Cor 11:23-29
For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.

The next New Testament text in chronological order would have been Mark's Gospel. Written about 64 AD, in Rome, Mark, not an eyewitness, probably heard the account of the Last Supper he recorded from the Apostle Peter.

Mk 14:22-24
While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it. He said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed for many."

The third account of the Last Supper could be Matthew's. Matthew, the tax collector Levi, was an eyewitness to the meal. He was one of the twelve Apostles. Matthew probably wrote his Gospel in the 70's.

Mt 26:26-28
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, "Take and eat; this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins."

Luke's account of the Last Supper, written from the standpoint of a Gentile convert and a non-eyewitness, probably heard the details of the Last Supper from Paul. Luke was a traveling companion of Paul. Luke also wrote in the 70's.

Lk 22:15-20
He (Jesus) said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer, for, I tell you, I shall not eat it (again) until there is fulfillment in the kingdom of God." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and said, "Take this and share it among yourselves; for I tell you (that) from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you."

The beloved disciple, John, the last of the New Testament writers, wrote his Gospel in the 90's. John was an eyewitness to the events of the Last Supper (Jn 6:30-68).

Jn 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."

Hence Catholic Christian belief in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist rests upon the literal meaning of the words of the Last Supper as recorded by the Evangelists and Paul.

The uniformity of expression across the first four authors affirms the literalness. Belief in the real presence demands faith--the basis of new life as called for by Christ throughout scripture. But faith in signs conferring what they signify is the basis also for the Incarnation--appearances belying true meaning. The true significance of the real presence is sealed in John's gospel. Five times in different expressions, Jesus confirmed the reality of what he means.

Jn 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.
Jn 6:53
Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Jn 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life.
Jn 6:55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Jn 6:56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

The best way a person can make a clear literal point is repetition of the same message in different ways. Jesus did this. Those around him clearly understood what he was saying--cannibalism and the drinking of blood--both forbidden by Mosaic Law.

Jn 6:60,66
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" ... As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

Had these disciples mistaken the meaning of Jesus' words, Jesus would surely have known and corrected them. He didn't. They had clearly understood his meaning--Jesus' flesh was to be really eaten; his blood to be really drunk.

Non believers often respond that even at the Last Supper, the apostles did not sense that they had flesh in their hands and blood in their cup. But Jesus is God. The creative literalness of the words: "This is my body; this is my blood" must be believed. God cannot lie. And God can turn bread into flesh and wine into blood without the appearances of bread and wine changing.

Medieval philosophers and theologians called this expression of Divine Truth and Creative Power "transubstantiation". Yes, God can change the substance of any created matter while the appearances remain unchanged. And this demands faith.

Paul confirms elsewhere in his letters the reality of the real presence.

1 Cor 10:16
The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

The persuasion of the Church from Apostolic times about the objective reality of these words of Christ is clear from many documents.

Irenaeus (Asia Minor, 140 - 202), Tertullian (Rome, 160 - 220), Cyprian (Carthage, 200 - 258) are just a few of the earliest who attest to the objective reality of the words of Christ.

In the Church in Alexandria, Athanasius (293 - 373) and Cyril (376 - 444) equally attest to the literal meaning of the words of Christ at the Last Supper.

In the Church in Palestine, Cyril (Jerusalem, 315 - 387) and Epiphanius (Salamis, 367 - 403) also affirm in their teaching the same reality.

Unanimity is found across the universal church until the 11th century. Berengar (Tours, France, 1000 - 1088) was one of the first to deny the real presence by arguing that Christ is not physically present, but only symbolically.

The Council of Rome (a local council), 1079, taught against Berengar that the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ.

By the 16th century, some Reformers (excluding Luther) also taught that Christ's presence in the Eucharist was only figurative or metaphorical. Since there were other opinions being taught as truth (figurative presence and metaphorical presence) a teaching authority (see Chapter 5) had to be appealed to discern error from the truth. The way of the Church was to follow the model of Acts 15.

The Council of Trent (1545 - 1563) defined the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and the Eucharist as both the continuing sacrifice of Christ and a real sacrament. The institution of the Eucharist as sacrament was contained in the words "Do this in remembrance of me."

The Mass: Synagogue Service and Last Supper

Roman Catholic Christians celebrate the Eucharist in the liturgical act called the Mass. The word Mass comes from the Latin missa ("sent"). It was taken from the formula for dismissing the congregation: Ite missa est ("Go, the Eucharist has been sent forth") referring to the ancient custom of sending consecrated bread from the bishop's Mass to the sick and to the other churches.

The Mass contains two parts: the liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The Liturgy of the Word is a copy of the Jewish synagogue service of the first century: readings from Scripture followed by responses from the congregation often from the Book of Psalms. The Liturgy of the Eucharist is a reenactment of the Last Supper. A celebrant does what Christ did: take bread and wine and say the same words Christ said and then share the now consecrated bread and wine with the congregation.

Roman Catholics believe that the bread and wine become the real Body and Blood of Jesus Christ and remain such until the elements are entirely consumed. The Body and Blood not consumed at one Eucharist are reserved for the next celebration of the Eucharist and venerated as the Body and Blood of Jesus.

Remembrance: One Sacrifice--Calvary--Continued

Roman Catholic Christians take the word of God seriously and seek to remember Christ in the Last Supper "as often as" possible. And in doing this proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

1 Cor 11:24-26
"This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
Lk 22:19
"This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me."

Catholic Christians also believe that there is only one sacrifice, Jesus', but following the command "as often as" to proclaim the death of the Lord, the sacrifice of Christ is made physically present to every Christian in all places in every age. The Eucharist makes the atemporal aphysical actions of Christ's redeeming action truly present to us always and everywhere. This is incarnational.

Following the word of God, Catholics also know that Christ is not and cannot be resacrificed. This has never been the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Heb 10:12
But this one (Jesus) offered one sacrifice for sins ...
Heb 7:27
He has no need, as did the high priests, to offer sacrifice day after day, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did that once for all when he offered himself.
Heb 9:25-28
Not that he might offer himself repeatedly ... But now once for all he has appeared at the end of the ages to take away sin by his sacrifice. ... Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many ...

The constant faith of the Church from the Apostolic Fathers attests to the fact that the Mass was the one Sacrifice of Calvary made present to the faithful.

Cyprian (Carthage, 200-258), Letters, No 63:9 (To Caecilian)
In which portion we find that the cup which the Lord offered was mixed, and that that was wine He called His Blood. Whence it appears that the blood of Christ is not offered if there be no wine in the cup, nor the Lord's sacrifice celebrated with a legitimate consecration unless our oblation and sacrifice respond to His passion.

The 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church makes this statement explicitly.

Catechism Section 1085
In the Liturgy of the Church, it is principally his own Paschal mystery that Christ signifies and makes present. During his earthly life Jesus announced his Paschal mystery by his teachings and anticipated it by his actions. When his Hour comes, he lives out the unique event of history which does not pass away: Jesus dies, is buried, rises from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of the Father "once for all." His Paschal mystery is a real event that occurred in our history, but it is unique: all other historical events happen once, and then they pass away, swallowed up in the past. The Paschal mystery of Christ, by contrast, cannot remain only in the past, because by his death he destroyed death, and all that Christ is -- all that he did and suffered for all people -- participates in the divine eternity, and so transcends all times while being made present in them all. The event of the Cross and Resurrection abides and draws everything toward life.
Catechism Section 1104
Christian liturgy not only recalls the events that saved us but actualizes them, makes them present. The Paschal mystery of Christ is celebrated, not repeated. It is the celebrations that are repeated, and in each celebration there is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that makes the unique mystery present.

Transubstantiation

The Roman Catholic Church through history approached her faith life with the clarification of language. That is, she translated the essentials of revealed faith into the vocabulary of living language.

Transubstantiation reflects Roman Catholic faith in the literalness of the words of the Bible.

Jesus (omnipotent God) said: "This is my body; this is my blood." And again Jesus said: "I am the bread of life;" "My flesh is true food; my blood is true drink;" "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood ...;" etc.

Roman Catholics take Jesus at His word: the bread is his body; the wine is his blood.

From the Apostles at the Last Supper until today, the bread and wine of Eucharist looks and feels and tastes like bread and wine in the eating and drinking.

Similar to all of God's Word, faith is essential. Faith in what? In the words of Jesus even though the bread does not look, feel, taste like flesh; even though the wine does not look, feel, taste like blood.

Medieval philosophers and theologians sought simply to label this simple biblical faith: Jesus said that bread is his body and wine is his blood even though it did not appear to change into visible flesh and blood.

Transubstantiation means the substance part of the bread and wine elements changes; but the accidental parts--sight, taste, smell, touch--do not. Catholics believe that since Jesus said it and He is God, he can do it. They believe! "Transubstantiation" merely labels it.

In everyday life, it is not at all uncommon to believe in things man cannot perceive by the senses: wind, electricity, love, peace, etc. All the more when Jesus says it.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; catholic; eucharist; realpresence; transubstantiation
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To: tiki
Because the non-Catholics always tell us to prove what we believe by quoting Scripture as they believe the Magisterium and Tradition are wrong beliefs, which really is a straw man because they insist that we follow their beliefs to explain our own and even when we believe it is clear through Scripture, it doesn't fit their own interpretation.

**************

Tiki, I do believe you have really nailed it here.

181 posted on 06/11/2007 12:34:20 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: GoLightly; 1000 silverlings

It’s not true. I don’t know if the untruth is negligent or malicious. But it’s not true.


182 posted on 06/11/2007 12:51:31 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: DungeonMaster
That's a creative reason to ditch the bible.

Well, if you're right, I'll remember that if I ever decide to ditch the Bible. Are you suggesting that disagreeing with Sola Scripture is ditching the Bible?

183 posted on 06/11/2007 1:06:45 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
What I said was that no one has said the Luther was reliable as a philosopher. As far as St. Thomas is concerned, Luther was hardly an expert. Remember that Cajetan, his first real interlocutor, was the leading Thomist of the age, and from what I have read, he said that Luther just didn’t “get it.” Luther’s strength was in rhetoric, not philosophy. As a rhetorian he was the equal of Cicero.
184 posted on 06/11/2007 1:09:37 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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To: Mad Dawg
Well, if you're right, I'll remember that if I ever decide to ditch the Bible. Are you suggesting that disagreeing with Sola Scripture is ditching the Bible?

Tiki said he/she doesn't quote scripture because there are "10,000" interpretations of it. How did you manage to put completely different words in my mouth?

185 posted on 06/11/2007 1:10:34 PM PDT by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.)
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To: adiaireton8
Notice how you do not deal with the problem I pointed out

LOL. Notice how you ignored the part of my post that said every word of Calvin and the Protestant confessions are based on Scripture.

(That's what those little numbers refer to next to nearly every sentence in both.)

Protestants are happy to rely on Scripture as the final authority by which we measure all of life because we are confident the Holy Spirit speaks through Scripture. Not only does Scripture tell us this, but the Holy Spirit produces good fruit in our lives that prove it true.

The RCC, however, relies on men and magisteriums, changeable dictates from fallible men who tend to disregard the word of God for their own leanings.

Again, we are known by our fruits.

186 posted on 06/11/2007 1:33:07 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Again, we are known by our fruits.

And how many stigmatics has Calvinism produced?

-A8

187 posted on 06/11/2007 1:40:38 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: stfassisi; Kolokotronis
Seems to me this would be an easy thing to come together on because in the end we both receive the same Christ -truly wholly and substantially His Body ,Blood, Soul and Divinity

stfassisi, the Synod of 1672 in Jerusalem establishes that we share in 7 Mysteries (sacraments). It is not that we can come together in this regard, but that we are together in this regard. :)

Our sacraments, clergy and Apostolic succession, even the pirmacy of +Peter, are what makes us one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. We are not in communion with some bishops because we have not worked out theological perspectives that seem to divde us and because we have yet to establish mutually agreeable limits or extent of papal primacy.

From the Synod of Jerusalem


188 posted on 06/11/2007 1:47:39 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: RobbyS

I don’t know what caused him to choose the term he used, but you could be right. Trying to connect the understanding of the Trinity reached at the CoN to our understanding of the Euchrist would make a whole lotta sense.

What matters to me is whether or not I believe there is Scriptural support behind the ideas.

Wrapping my mind around many of the ideas behind my beliefs tend to send me wandering around somewhere in outter space. If that makes me a metaphysician, I dunno. If I am, I’m afraid I’m not a very good one.

I believe God’s energy holds the universe as we know it together in its current form. Since energy & matter are different forms of the same thing... Bread, wine, the flesh & blood of Christ, all there. Don’t know if I’m right or not, cuz that takes a leap of faith.

To be honest, I hadn’t thought about it much, but your last line, “A “miracle” that —like the Resurrection is not a miracle but more like Creation itself.”, connected with me.


189 posted on 06/11/2007 2:14:50 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Mad Dawg
I don’t know if the untruth is negligent or malicious.

I see another possibility, cuz negativity isn't tying me down.

190 posted on 06/11/2007 2:17:39 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: adiaireton8; 1000 silverlings; Uncle Chip; HarleyD; Gamecock; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; xzins; ...
And how many stigmatics has Calvinism produced?

What a strange question. Since stigmatas (stigmati?) are a Romanist misconception, wrongly founded on individual, visual representations of blood and suffering (a RC preoccupation) I'd say by the grace of God, none.

We do learn something new every day on this forum. For instance, I didn't know the RCC teaches there are two kinds of stigmata, the visible and the invisible. And as asserted in NewAdvent, a person can ask God that their visible stigmatas be made invisible.

I wonder if it works the other way around -- from invisible to visible. "Please God, make my hands bleed."

STIGMATAS

Protestants understand that the cross we Christians bear is spiritual, and thus, it is spiritually discerned. The fruits of our salvation by Christ are the work of the Holy Spirit. They are a physical outpouring of the goodness and right-thinking God has ordained in our lives. They are not blood and pain; they are peace and gratitude and obedience and even more good fruit.

While all Christians suffer persecution for our belief in Jesus Christ, we are to bear that weight with joy and trust in God, just as Christ did...

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." -- Hebrews 12:1-2

Stigmatas are a figment of the chains of the RCC. Pray to be released from their bonds. The spiritual circumcision of your heart is all that God requires and the only blood that matters is the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross.

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end" -- 2 Corinthians 1:-13

Please note Paul's authoritative nod to Sola Scripture -- "for we write none other things unto you than what ye read or acknowledge..."

191 posted on 06/11/2007 2:28:24 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
So all these Catholics received their stigmata from the devil? Even Francis of Assisi? Really?

-A8

192 posted on 06/11/2007 2:39:41 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

The God of the Universe is certainly no sadist. Stigmati are not from Him. As to their source, I don’t think anyone has speculated.

Are you offering the devil up as your suggestion? Or are you defending against an assertion that was never put forward?


193 posted on 06/11/2007 2:44:22 PM PDT by pjr12345 (But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:20)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Amen to your post.

The Romanists worship, as Knox stated, a 'wafer god'.

194 posted on 06/11/2007 2:48:38 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: GoLightly

So GIVE, already!


195 posted on 06/11/2007 2:55:42 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: adiaireton8; Dr. Eckleburg
So all these Catholics received their stigmata from the devil? Even Francis of Assisi? Really?

They got their stigmatas from holding their rosaries too tight.

196 posted on 06/11/2007 3:06:31 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: lastchance
if the full effect on each man's individual salvation is immediate on Christ sacrifice at Calvary why do we still ask for forgiveness of our sins?

That's a great question and the answer has to do with the different meanings Protestants and Catholics attribute to justification and sanctification.

For the Catholic, they are much the same thing. The RCC teaches that both justification and sanctification are ongoing throughout life, i.e. men must obey and repent in order to receive God's grace.

According to the historic Protestant faith, we believe Scripture tells us that justification is the one-time atonement Christ made for His flock. Since God ordained all that comes to pass, He likewise ordained the names of the elect from before the foundation of the world. Two thousand years ago He determined that Christ, God Himself, would come to earth, suffer for the sake of His sheep, die for their sins and be resurrected to prove it all true so that you and I could stand before God acquitted of our sins, blameless by the covering of blood of Jesus Christ.

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." -- Romans 5:8-19

Sanctification, however, is a life-long process whereby the indwelling Holy Spirit regenerates our hearts and turns our eyes from sin to God.

We will never be perfect; we will always sin. It's our human nature. But by the grace of God, we will sin less and less as the Holy Spirit makes Himself known in our hearts and guides our steps.

God expects us to acknowledge this fact. And so we ask forgiveness every day for every sin we commit, confident that every sin has already been forgiven by His sacrifice. Just like we ask for a repentent heart and an obedient will. Just like we are instructed to pray for everything we want, all with God knowing exactly what we need before we ask Him. By the grace of God, those gifts are given to us. As William Buckley once wrote, gratitude is the proper perspective of the Christ mind. Coming from a Roman Catholic, I thought that was very Reformed of him. 8~)

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:1-10

It all comes down to trust. Either we trust that Christ has paid the penalty for our sins, or we don't.

I really enjoy the Westminster Larger Catechism's perspective, particularly its first question...

Question 1: What is the chief and highest end of man?

Answer: Man's chief and highest end is to glorify God, and fully to enjoy him forever.

197 posted on 06/11/2007 3:22:10 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: fortheDeclaration; Uncle Chip; P-Marlowe; xzins; blue-duncan; HarleyD; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; ...
The Romanists worship, as Knox stated, a 'wafer god'.

LOL. Reminds me of Monty Python's Mr. Creosote, the French waiter and the "wafffer thin" mint...

PRESS HERE


198 posted on 06/11/2007 3:35:22 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; adiaireton8; 1000 silverlings; Uncle Chip; Gamecock; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; ...
We do learn something new every day on this forum.

Amen!!! This is a new one. I especially liked the gal who was so humble that she prayed that no one see them and it was so. I wonder how that would play out...

Honestly, the things we learn on this board.
199 posted on 06/11/2007 3:56:19 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Since stigmatas (stigmati?) are a Romanist misconception, wrongly founded on individual, visual representations of blood and suffering (a RC preoccupation) I'd say by the grace of God, none.

Stigmatas are not "misconceptions" or conceptions. Concepts exist in our minds. Stigmata are wounds on a person's body. Were St. Padre Pio's stigmata, which he bore for 50 years (1918-1968), of the devil? If so, why did he (and St. Francis of Assisi) live such holy lives?

Some videos about St. Padre Pio can be viewed here and here. Here is a video of his last mass.

-A8

200 posted on 06/11/2007 3:57:39 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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