Bishop restores Latin Mass (Phoenix)

East Valley Tribune ^ | 06.21.05 | Lawn Griffiths

[el_chupacabra]

Bishop restores Latin Mass
By Lawn Griffiths, Tribune
June 21, 2005
The Old Mass has regained critical mass in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix. The one-year experiment to determine whether enough Valley Catholics wanted Masses in Latin — the mother tongue of the church — has ended.
And Bishop Thomas Olmsted has declared Latin a winner. The response to a first year of "Tridentine liturgy" or Latin Masses at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church in east Phoenix has been so strong that Olmsted is making them permanent, and extending the special Masses to more parishes. After July 1, a Tridentine Mass will be offered Sundays at St. Augustine in Phoenix, which has a largely Hispanic congregation. For Catholics in the northern parts of the diocese, a Latin Mass will be on Sundays at St. Cecilia’s Catholic Church in Clarkdale. The Phoenix diocese had gone 35 years without traditional Latin Masses in wake of the sweeping reforms ushered in by Vatican Council II (1962-65). Changes implemented in 1969 included turning priests around to face their parishioners instead of the altar, new music instead of Gregorian chants and Masses in the congregation’s native tongue instead of Latin. But some traditionalists resented changes and appealed for a return to the Old Mass, with its cadences and rhythms. More than 1,300 Catholics packed into St. Thomas the Apostle, 2312 E. Campbell Ave., Phoenix, on June 6, 2004, for the return of the Latin Mass. They heard phrases like "Sanctus, sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth" instead of "Holy, holy, holy, Lord God of Hosts." Some came with their old Latin missals. People showed up that day out of both "piety and curiosity," said the Rev. Greg Kotnis of Sun City, who conducted the Mass. "Surprisingly, there were many young people, too. The old people were nostalgic for the old message," he said. "It is the Mass of the ages," said Michael Malone, whose wife Ann and seven children regularly attend the Mass at 1 p.m. Sundays at St. Thomas. "It’s been the succor of countless saints, and for us, my wife and my family, it expresses the best sense of the sacred, the mystery and the sacrifice of the Mass." The Phoenix man said more than 300 Catholics come from across the Valley, driving up to an hour each way, to take part in the Mass where the priest faces the altar, chants resound from a choir and altar boys hold prayer together at the foot of the altar before the formal Mass starts. It carries the tradition of receiving the Holy Eucharist on the tongue instead in the hand. Women commonly wear veils or mantillas. Rick Severs of Scottsdale, who went to that first Mass, never went back. "I did enjoy that, and it really brought back a lot of childhood memories, with the Latin songs and responses," he said. "But it is like anything else, you accept change slowly but once change comes, you don’t want to go back. You see how the change was really good." Olmsted has given the special community of Latin Masses at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church "mission" status, putting it in line to be a possible Latin parish someday. He has named the mission "Mater Misericordiae," which means "Mother of Mercy." Rev. Alonso Saenz was named pastor, and he also will continue serving St. Augustine Parish in west Phoenix. Saenz will be assisted by the Rev. Stephane Dupre, a French priest with the Fraternity of St. Peter, now working in the Diocese of Sacramento (Calif.). Dupre will arrive July 1 and live at St. Augustine. Priests with enough experience in officiating Latin Masses may do so, but the number is limited in the diocese. The Rev. R. Clements, pastor of St. Mary’s Catholic Parish in Chandler, holds occasional Tridentine Masses and recently conducted a funeral in the Old Rite. "He wore the black vestments and turned his back to the congregation," said parishioner Mary Douglas. "He is very traditional and very devout."
Contact Lawn Griffiths by email, or phone (480) 898-6522

Purchase this article for reprint. Click here for options. Copyright 2005 East Valley & Scottsdale Tribune Freedom Communications, Inc.

[Tax-chick]

How nice for them.

[shag377]

In nomine patri et filii et spiritu sanctu

[YankeeinOkieville]

Let me start by saying that I'm not Catholic. I have many friends who are and on rare occasions I am priviledged to attend mass with one of them. Last Easter was such an occasion. Totally in English. Even I felt disappointed and somehow unfulfilled by the experience.

I know God understands every language ever thought of by mankind but the lack of using Latin in a Catholic mass is like wearing your street clothes to church. It is acceptable but not very respectful. Church should be regarded as different, out of the ordinary (in a positive way). I think it is a good move.

[old and tired]

Let me start by saying that I'm not Catholic.

Not yet, anyway. Anyone who longs for ritual and respects tradition belongs with us. Come on in. The water's fine.

[te lucis]

The Phoenix diocese had gone 35 years without traditional Latin Masses in wake of the sweeping reforms ushered in by Vatican Council II (1962-65).

The Society of St. Pius X has been firmly established in Phoenix since 1978, offering Treaditional Latin Masses every day of the week.

[bigsigh]

If you respect tradition, you will follow the apostles practice of preaching and saying mass in the local language.

I know many of you long for Latin mass and I don't care about it one way or another. But you can't claim tradition when the original practice was the opposite of what you want.

Have fun in your revelry and whatever victory you think you have achieved by this pronouncement.

[murphE]

Interesting choice, Phoenix.

[Zunt Toad]

Ping

[Salvation]

**I know many of you long for Latin mass and I don't care about it one way or another. But you can't claim tradition when the original practice was the opposite of what you want. **

Excellent!

[old and tired]

If you respect tradition, you will follow the apostles practice of preaching and saying mass in the local language...Have fun in your revelry and whatever victory you think you have achieved by this pronouncement.

Take your attitude somewhere else, pal. I'm actually an Novus Ordo Catholic myself. But I can see the Traditionalists have been treated like dirt for the last 30 plus years and I can be happy for them.

You sure don't sound like someone who doesn't care one way or the other. Why not admit it? I freely admit I prefer the Mass said in English. Also, it's not so simple to define tradition as what we believe was originally done by the apostles. Particularly since the Council of Trent defined the Latin Mass as the Mass for all time.

[te lucis]

Interesting choice, Phoenix.

Indeed. I wonder if all these unprecedented concessions are having their desired effect. I suppose it would be easy enough to find out.

[bigsigh]

Thanx. I can't compete with many of the scholars who post here, but God's intention in the new testament seems pretty clear and straight forward.

[bigsigh]

Dear Pal,

You can't be a traditionalist and ignore the original practice. Call yourself what you want, but know the truth.

Thanx for the invitation to leave in your generous charitable christian spirit.

[old and tired]

Thanx for the invitation to leave in your generous charitable christian spirit.

I didn't ask you to leave. Just your attitude.

[bigsigh]

My attitude was to speak the truth. Sorry you're disturbed by that. By the way, I like the line "mass for all tme." I guess they just ignored our/their origins and how the church got out of Judea in the first place. Good stuff!

[te lucis]

This news really, really bugs you, huh?

[bigsigh]

What really, really bugs me besides your mischaracterization of my position, is people claiming the older ground when there was a practice previous to theirs. If you're not bugged by the ignoring of history, then have fun in your delusions.

[te lucis]

You just seem angry. I mean, for someone who doesn't care either way.

[sitetest]

Dear bigsigh,

For the Catholic Church, neither "Tradition" or "tradition" always mean "most original practice."

Neither "Tradition" nor "tradition" should be equated with "antiquarianism."

In fact, I believe there is a name given to that particular error, although it escapes me right now.

I've pinged a couple of folks more capable than I am of elucidating these points.


sitetest