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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Why did Jesus have to die for man in order to get salvation?
Why couldn't God tell man if he would ask God/Heavenly Father for forgiveness he would be saved?
Why would God/Heavenly Father need to come to earth?
Why would God/Heavenly Father need to now call himself Son of God when he visited earth?
There was a point where Jesus cried unto the Father in Heaven and also a time that Jesus the Son of God was seperated from God the Father.
How is that when Jesus is according to the Nicene Creed really God the Father!
If God the Heavenly Father is a Spirit....
after he came to earth he had a temporal body of Flesh and Blood,....
and than God reutrn as the Son with a resurrected Body of Flesh and Bone!
All the while God the Father was here on earth he was to show the way and did the WILL of his Father in Heaven!
I pray you will ponder and not just react!
I think there is more to these questions and my point of view that Father and Son are two different indiviual personages, but also a better understanding of the Laws that we are living under here on earth is NOT the same Laws of how other Kingdoms of the Lord functions.
In the Garden of Eden the Laws are different, and the ways of the Lord could not continue there to bring about the Lord's agenda!
Explain to me exactly how, in your understanding, man chooses to sin.
Who made man that way? Is man overruling God's sovereignity in order to make these decisions? Is the natural man to blame for his condition? He is born incapable of good, God never changes him, and then God damns him for eternity for doing exactly what God wants?
Is that your belief?
Just tell me, one of you Calvinists, before I have to ask a 6th time. Who made the natural man the way he is?
SD
He didn't.
Why couldn't God tell man if he would ask God/Heavenly Father for forgiveness he would be saved?
He did.
I do not think you can draw the inference that God did not know that the Jews would follow after strange gods and their practices ..that is why he had the heathen killed before them as they took the land. If He fore-knew this , and it happened He had by inaction ordained it .
I think that you agree that God has as one of His attributes Omniscience ...there is no way that he was "surprised"
nor were the Israelites doing as He intended when they did this.
That is a description of Sin
Sin is always against the will of God .
I did not do it in the space of a year..but then I did not have the advantage of having an FR-mail coach
BTW, Calvinists and Arminians are both Protestant
Naw ...Kev is my buddy
Nothing is against the will of God. Right? Isn't God sovereign? Didn't he plan everything?
It would help if you guys were consistent. Earlier we were told that the Pharaoh, even though he did what God wanted, was still sinful cause he had the wrong "motives."
Now, you've invented something totally outside of your professed code, the idea of something being "against the will of God."
I agree with your definition. Unfortunately, if you do, then you can't be a Calvinist.
SD
"I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the father but by me"
Its been known from before the foundations of the earth that this would take so long to get responded to. :-)
Well as a Faithful Catholic you should
Q.574. What is a Sacrament?
Q.575. Are these three things, namely: An outward or visible sign, the institution of that sign by Christ, and the giving of grace through the use of that sign, always necessary for the existence of a Sacrament?
We memorized it a bit more simply
What is a Sacrament?
An outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace
So you EARN grace every time you go to confession or communion
This will be the 4th time asking. If the men in hell deserve to be there cause they could never choose the good, who made them that way?
Men do not choose God because original sin causes us to be born sinners..thank Adam
Are they more sovereign than God, able to create their own motives and actions? Or are they just doing what is in God's plan?
Nothing can occurs that is outside Gods plan. He is sovereign over all things that occur on this earth. All things , including sin serve His sovereign plan . Even Satan can not act without the consent of God.
You of course have the scriptures that "straightened you out.....cause it is just not scriptural
For that matter, how can you say a man's chief end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever when God made some men specifically not to enjoy Him forever?
I believe that is why Adam and Eve were created ... that was the purpose of their creation
I do not think you can draw the inference that God did not know that the Jews would follow after strange gods and their practices ..that is why he had the heathen killed before them as they took the land. If He fore-knew this , and it happened He had by inaction ordained it .
I think that you agree that God has as one of His attributes Omniscience ...there is no way that he was "surprised".
I believe that I was clear that I agreed with you that God was not surprised by the Israelites idolatry.
He foreknew it.
Why did man need Salvation/ a Savior?
Because man's sin makes separates him from God, his source.Isaiah 53:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:Why did Jesus have to die for man in order to get salvation?
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
For us to be purged of our sins, we needed the shed blood of a perfect sacrifice.Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.Why couldn't God tell man if he would ask God/Heavenly Father for forgiveness he would be saved?
Because He will not hear the prayer of the sinner.Isaiah 53:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:Why would God/Heavenly Father need to come to earth?
2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
God the Father didn't need to come to earth ... neither did He come here in the incarnation.
Why would God/Heavenly Father need to now call himself Son of God when he visited earth?
God the Father did not come to earth in the incarnation. God the Son came to earth. They are two distinct Persons ... but they are both God.
There was a point where Jesus cried unto the Father in Heaven and also a time that Jesus the Son of God was seperated from God the Father.
God the Father and God the Son are two distinct Persons ... but they are both God.
How is that when Jesus is according to the Nicene Creed really God the Father!
God the Father and God the Son are two distinct Persons ... but they are both God.
If God the Heavenly Father is a Spirit.... after he came to earth he had a temporal body of Flesh and Blood, ... and than God return as the Son with a resurrected Body of Flesh and Bone!
God the Father did not come to earth. God the Father and God the Son are two distinct Persons ... but they are both God.
All the while God the Father was here on earth he was to show the way and did the WILL of his Father in Heaven!
God the Father did not come to earth. God the Father and God the Son are two distinct Persons ... but they are both God.
Neither did Steven.
but then I did not have the advantage of having an FR-mail coach
LOL, oh, please. What, you think I've been trying to recruit him?
On the other hand, I now have a vacancy. Maybe I'll set my sights on you next.
I'll pass. Understanding one set of laws is quite enough. ;o)
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