| This thread has been locked, it will not receive new replies. |
|
Locked on 04/19/2004 7:52:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator, reason:
This thread has 183 abuse reports. It’s now locked. Maybe you can all get along better on the next thread. |
Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
What I know is there were many many posts exchanged that accused the "Calvinists" of coming here to shut down the thread , and accusations that we were intentionally trying to draw the mods attention to the thread by pinging them. When all along you and perhaps others were exchanging mail with the mod telling him we had an agenda here.
Truth be told ... there were accusations/insinuations made on both sides.
Both sides of the issue were concerned with the mod's sudden attention to the thread.
As for me ... I never had any communication with any moderator.
As I have stated repeatedly ... I responded to JimRob's post where he stated that the thread was threatened with shutdown.
I asked for a reason ... said that I wasn't seeing any problems ... and suggested that, if he was getting abuse notifications in regard to the thread, ... that he check the thread himself to confirm or refute any such charges of abuse before he took any further action.
In doing so ... I accused noone.
It is certainly much fairer to handicap someone than it is to simply create them incapable of motion.
SD
John 8:
16: Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone that judge, but I and he who sent me.
17: In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true;
18: I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me."
19: They said to him therefore, "Where is your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew me, you would know my Father also."
Unless you want to deny the Omniscience of God then you have the same "problem" to answer.
Is it a given that we must find an answer to this "problem" ?
Doesn't it fall into the area of how God accomplishes His will ?
Can we even trust ourselves to truly comprehend such a thing ?Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.If God knew who would and would not be saved, or however you want to say it, and created the world anyway ... then who, really, is doing what God did not intend for them to do?
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Well ... it appears that Israel may have been ...Jeremiah 32:30 For the children of Israel and the children of Judah have only done evil before me from their youth: for the children of Israel have only provoked me to anger with the work of their hands, saith the LORD.
31 For this city hath been to me as a provocation of mine anger and of my fury from the day that they built it even unto this day; that I should remove it from before my face,
32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.
34 But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it.
35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
So God offers this gift to all, but knows some will not accept (reach for it)? I'm with you here. WILL NOT REACH sounds a lot like free will though ,don't you think? :')
So now we measure God and develop theology in terms of our understanding of "fairness"? Yeesch!
That M was precisely my point . God does not count "fairness" as man counts "fairness"
God feels it is exceedingly fair to select who He will to save according to His good pleasure. Just as he chose Abraham to become the nation of Israel and a special people to himself. Fair is when all mankind falls short of the glory of God (romans 3) . When there is not one that is worthy to be in the presence of our Holy God that He saves any is more than "fair".
That M was precisely my point . God does not count "fairness" as man counts "fairness"
God feels it is exceedingly fair to select who He will to save according to His good pleasure. Just as he chose Abraham to become the nation of Israel and a special people to himself. Fair is when all mankind falls short of the glory of God (romans 3) . When there is not one that is worthy to be in the presence of our Holy God that He saves any is more than "fair".
Don't be obtuse. I was responding to your own question. you were the one who brought up "fairness."
SD
Who made them a corpse and decided before the world was made that they would be corpses?
Is it a cats fault that it catches mice?
Should it be punished for it?
SD
Why are none worthy? Did the sovereign God decide to make it that way or did someone else decide?
SD
It sure does CD. Calvinists have affirmed this Free-Will over and over again. We agree that those who do not believe do so of their own Free Will. I have been saying that since I jumped back on this thread.
What is inappropriate about it?
It helps if you don't re-define the terms.
Calvinists deny free will completely. Everything is God's decision. He has decreed all. Do you deny that?
SD
Tautology is usually used to denote something trivial. I don't find God revealing His Name, and His Nature trivial.
It's certainly not parallel to the original example given, which if interpreted in the Calvin way, is extremely trivial and trite.
SD
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.