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The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)
AP ^ | 3/24/01

Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.


Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

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To: SoothingDave
Oh, the poor thing!

Of course she is in our prayers.

Please let us know how things are going. How long had she been home?

3,561 posted on 04/12/2004 8:29:59 AM PDT by IMRight
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To: the808bass
But there is a parallelism between the first and second Adam. If the first Adam brought condemnation upon everyone, why doesn't the second Adam bring grace in the same fashion?

Cause Jesus didn't have any children, to pass on this grace in this fashion.

SD

3,562 posted on 04/12/2004 8:30:16 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Now, tell me again, why the Governor should be executing these cats for following their nature?

Then we might as well get rid of most of the laws on our books. We shouldn't punish the alcoholic for DUI because he was just following his nature. We shouldn't punish those who indulge in kiddie porn because they are just following their nature.

3,563 posted on 04/12/2004 8:36:50 AM PDT by ksen (This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
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To: IMRight
How long had she been home?

Since Wednesday. She hadn't really fed a lot (and with breast-feeding it's hard to gauge) and had slept an awful lot since then.

She's in the best place she can be right now. As scary as it sounds to have someone life flighted, she's better off there than in a local hospital.

SD

3,564 posted on 04/12/2004 8:38:57 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
Please pray for my baby neice, Bridget Nicole, and her parents Amy and Dave.

Will do......

Didn't your sister learn not to fool with guys named "Dave?"

3,565 posted on 04/12/2004 8:39:27 AM PDT by ksen (This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
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To: ksen
It's an analogy Kevin. You were explaining grace by this analogy. But the Governor is God in your analogy, right?

So why is God punishing the sinner when he is only acting out his nature?

SD

3,566 posted on 04/12/2004 8:40:10 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
"Cause Jesus didn't have any children, to pass on this grace in this fashion."

Actually, you're correct. Sin was entered into the world through one man. That is the reason the Virgin Birth was necessary.

3,567 posted on 04/12/2004 8:46:07 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: SoothingDave
So why is God punishing the sinner when he is only acting out his nature?

I'll answer your question, but I expect an answer to mine in return.

God is punishing the Unbeliever because they have transgressed God's laws. It doesn't matter that they may have been hard-wired to break God's laws. Sin, and by extension sinners, cannot be in the presence of a Holy God....no matter what the reason is for their sin.

In my analogy, did the Governor owe the two death-row inmates anything? Was the Governor unjust in only pardoning one inmate?

3,568 posted on 04/12/2004 8:54:55 AM PDT by ksen (This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
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To: ksen
God is punishing the Unbeliever because they have transgressed God's laws. It doesn't matter that they may have been hard-wired to break God's laws. Sin, and by extension sinners, cannot be in the presence of a Holy God....no matter what the reason is for their sin.

And my objections to this are evidence that I am thinking with a reprobate mind?

The unbeliever sins because he chooses to, not because he was programmed to. And thus their punishment is earned and just.

In my analogy, did the Governor owe the two death-row inmates anything? Was the Governor unjust in only pardoning one inmate?

I do get your point. No, the Gov. doesn't owe them anything. The Gov is not unjust in selecting one for pardon. He is becoming a respecter of persons if he acts in that manner.

Our objections are not to the pardons being given out freely. They are to the conditions of the sentence of death in the first place. As I have questioned.

SD

3,569 posted on 04/12/2004 9:03:18 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
This is a trivialization of the entire concept. It's like saying your toddler can choose between spaghetti or the chicken nuggets on the kids' menu. It has nothing to do with the larger questions.

Like whether or not your child will get the Happy Meal toy he or she wants?

3,570 posted on 04/12/2004 9:13:29 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: SoothingDave
Well, Malakhi seems to be grounded and content where he is. Steven will need to show this. Hasn't he already indicated a willingness to look at the "evidence" you might have? That's not a good sign.

Thanx for urinalysis yet again. What was i supposed to do? Tell him "no don't send it" and hold a cross up to his face? By the way I haven't seen anything yet. You're priceless.

3,571 posted on 04/12/2004 9:20:42 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: SoothingDave
Steven will need to show this.

Steven needs not show anything. Especially to you.

3,572 posted on 04/12/2004 9:23:51 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: CindyDawg
Is this the plan Terry? To cause division? You aren't writing him off are you?

I saw his ping to the mod..the only other 2 I saw were well after the mod suspended 3 people .

The paranoia here is incredible Cindy . What you fail to see is there is division..Light and dark. I did not cause that nor encourage that .

I do not "write anyone off". It is not my job to save or condemn, that is Gods.

3,573 posted on 04/12/2004 9:26:33 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Broomstick Jockey)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; SoothingDave
Tell him "no don't send it" and hold a cross up to his face?

Why would you hold up a cross? Wouldn't that be a Star of David, or a Torah, or some other such thing in your case?

Actually, the Richard Matheson book I Am Legend, upon which the Charlton Heston film The Omega Man was based, proposed exactly this sort of thing. Crosses only repelled vampires that used to be Christians, convicting them of the moral code that they once held. Stars of David (Star of Davids? How do you pluralise it?) worked on formerly Jewish vampires, and so on.

3,574 posted on 04/12/2004 9:32:06 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: RnMomof7; CindyDawg; Gamecock
"....as the Rabbi Paul noted..."

As the Rabbi Paul also noted:

1 Corinthians 7:

1] Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman.

[25] Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.
[26] I think that in view of the present distress it is well for a person to remain as he is.
[27] Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage.

[29] I mean, brethren, the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,

If Rabbi Paul had his way civilization would have died out within one generation.

"You are too easily impressed."

3,575 posted on 04/12/2004 9:34:23 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: IMRight
I think they're all missing the point. It's the whole "mote/plank" thing. I suspect the mods have pretty plain-vanilla rules for civil discourse and people are too blind to see when they cross those (very reasonable) lines. This isn't the "free speech public street corner", it's a political website that consents to have it's regular members carry on other discussions. If people can't play within the rules, fin d a new game.

When URRight, URRight!
3,576 posted on 04/12/2004 9:39:20 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: CindyDawg
You know, I think all reports and pings of complaints should be made public. If it is important enough to call them then the compliantee should have the backbone to stand behind their complaint. Get rid of all this anonymous crap. I should have the right to face my accuser.

To which I responed "yea" lay it out"

To which you responded

No ma'am. You have accused him of this several xs now and he wasn't pinged the last two times. You should ask him yourself. As you can see I'm not shy about asking someone if they reported, including you.

Why the sudden change of mind? Cindy. I find it interesting that the Calvinists were accused of pinging the mod..BY YOU and when I agreed it would be good to see just who did ping who..you suddenly did not like your own idea. May I ask why?

I am confident that the mod was not pinged here by a Calvinist..but pinged or FRmailed here by a regular with his own agenda , and I suspect your original post was nothing but a diversion ...I have no problem asking who called , if you do...you must know something I do not.

Calvinists are not "afraid" of the doctrine of others. We are willing to dialog on doctrine all day long . We have no reason to shut someone up or get them kicked off a thread.So it was another agenda in play .

3,577 posted on 04/12/2004 9:41:14 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Broomstick Jockey)
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To: RnMomof7
I have two questions:

1) Is there Scriptural support for regeneration prior to belief?

2) Calvinists see God's grace as Him enabling the will of a sinner to accept Jesus Christ as Lord. Is there Scriptural evidence for this as well?

JM
3,578 posted on 04/12/2004 9:44:26 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: OLD REGGIE
[25] Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.

He never claimed it was inspired , just easier to be a missionary if one did not have to worry or care for a family as they had a short time to get the evangelization done..seems sensible to me...

3,579 posted on 04/12/2004 9:44:46 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Broomstick Jockey)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Steven needs not show anything. Especially to you.

You mean I'm no longer the standard you use to judge yourself? ;-)

SD

3,580 posted on 04/12/2004 9:46:37 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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