The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

Dave, you going to make excuses and just give him a pass too?

I would hope that you would know me better than that. I don't approve of such things.

For what it's worth, I tried my hardest yesterday to not respond to provocative postings about that movie, announcing that I was finished with the topic and asking others to join me in putting it aside.

SD

[JohnnyM]

"Just like with Noah's flood, the 'wicked were removed' and the righteous remained."

This refers back to a post on the prior thread. You are saying that the wicked are taken out first. The tares from among the wheat. You use an excellent example of God's dealing with the unrighteous in Noah. What is important to understand is that Noah is protected from God's wrath in the form of the Ark, just as Lot is protected from God's wrath upon Sodom and Gomarrah by taking him out of that city. Now, since this is God's M.O., would it not also be likely that God would protect the righteous at the great tribulation by taking them out, removing them, or protecting them in some way as not to be affected or punished by the wrath of God? I think we can see from these examples that, at the very least, the righteous will not suffer with the wicked during God's wrath. If this is the case, would not a rapture be an option?

JM

[ET(end tyranny)]

If this is the case, would not a rapture be an option?

Not likely, No.

People will have to make a choice during the tribulation. You can't make a choice if you are removed before the choice becomes necessary. Everyone goes through the judgement. No get out of jail free cards to escape the judgement. imo

[Quester]

The 4th commandment is broken by most christians ...

What is it that you think most christians are doing on the Sabbath ... working ... kindling a fire .... what ?

[JohnnyM]

"Everyone goes through the judgement"

Did Lot go through the judgement? Did Noah get flooded or drown?

JM

[JohnnyM]

Do you observe the Sabbath? What do your Saturdays consist of?

JM

[al_c]

Disclaimer: If you want on or off of this ping list, FReepmail me.

All Scripture has the force to touch and change us.

Daily Readings:

First Reading Jeremiah 17:5-10

Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in human beings, who seeks his strength in flesh, whose heart turns away from the Lord. He is like a barren bush in the desert that enjoys no change of season, But stands in a lava waste, a salt and empty earth. Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose hope is the Lord. He is like a tree planted beside the waters that stretches out its roots to the stream: It fears not the heat when it comes, its leaves stay green; In the year of drought it shows no distress, but still bears fruit. More tortuous than all else is the human heart, beyond remedy; who can understand it? I, the Lord, alone probe the mind and test the heart, To reward everyone according to his ways, according to the merit of his deeds.

Responsorial Psalm PSAlM 1:1-2, 3, 4 and 6

R. Blessed are they who hope in the Lord. Blessed the man who follows not the counsel of the wicked Nor walks in the way of sinners, nor sits in the company of the insolent, But delights in the law of the Lord and meditates on his law day and night. R. He is like a tree planted near running water, That yields its fruit in due season, and whose leaves never fade. Whatever he does, prospers. R. Not so, the wicked, not so; they are like chaff which the wind drives away. For the Lord watches over the way of the just, but the way of the wicked vanishes. R.

Gospel LUKE 16:19-31

Jesus said to the Pharisees: "There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.' Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.' He said, 'Then I beg you, father, send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.' But Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.' He said, 'Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' Then Abraham said, 'If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.'"

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The following is, as usual, from The Word Among Us:

The rich man in this parable had it all: fine clothes, the best food, and, we can assume, servants to attend to all his needs. As he told this story, Jesus said that this man "feasted sumptuously every day" (Luke 16:19) to show that he lacked nothing for a good life. This man was so rich and powerful that he may have even had his own copy of the Torah. With such plenty before him and Scripture behind, he certainly had no excuse for ignoring the needs of the poor man at his gate. But ignore him he did.

The rich man's fault was not that he was rich. Rather, it was that he was so caught up in himself that he didn't allow the words of Scripture--or the cry of the poor--to pierce his heart. As the word of God, Scripture has the power to pierce our hearts and open us to the truths of the gospel and the promises of God. This is just as true of the Old Testament as it is of the New Testament. Abraham told the rich man that his brothers had "Moses and the prophets" to teach them about God, his commands, and his love--and that this should have been enough for them.

All Scripture has the force to touch and change us. "Happy are those," says the psalmist, whose "delight is in the law of the Lord" and who meditate on it "day and night" (Psalm 1:1-2).

Our days are busy, crowded with the needs of our families, with the demands of work, and with a seemingly endless list of household chores. These are good and necessary responsibilities. If they become our sole focus, however, they can easily crowd out the "Lazaruses" in our lives and leave us, like the rich man, consumed with ourselves. God wants so much more for us. If we but open our hearts and yield ourselves to him, we will find boundless riches in his word, riches we can feast on sumptuously every day. May we always be open to receive them!

"Holy Spirit, give me an open, teachable heart. I may be very busy today, but I still ask you to help me yield my time and my focus to you, so that I may be touched by your word."

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God bless.

AC

[al_c]

Boy ... I go away for a few days and look what y'all do!!! Now we gotta start all over again. ;o)

Becky, I think I liked it better when you were still here and Mack pulled the disappearing stunt. We'll miss you. :o(
And thanks for your prayers, btw. :o)

[SoothingDave]

Hey, you're back. How's things? Girls still sick?

SD

[al_c]

I'm working on my patience and have ignored their spitballs to the back of the head many, many times. However, I'm not a saint, or anything close to one.

None of us are. But what you said about them was downright nasty and absolutely unChristian.

[al_c]

Movie? What movie?

;o)

[al_c]

Hey, you're back.

Yep! :o)

How's things?

Never better.... thanks for asking.

Girls still sick?

They're doing well. Grace is pretty much back to her normal self. Hannah is still struggling with a cough, but hopefully it'll get better. She just finished a round of Zithromax for a slight ear infection, so if she had strep, that should take care of it.

[SoothingDave]

Sorry to spoil the party but after listening to those two constantly bash Catholics and Catholicism one is bound to respond.

Respond to the charges they make. Don't bring people's children into the equation. It's totally uncalled for. We are to turn the other cheek. It can be difficult and I'm far from perfect.

SD

[Mr. Lucky]

Was there a food fight or something I missed?

[drstevej]

If I go see The Passion of the Christ on Sunday, how many of the ten commandments have I broken?

II
IV

And if during the movie my wife's giant tub of popcorn looks mighty good to me and I grab a handful while she has her eyes closed how many more of the ten commandments have I broken?

X
VIII


And if I say it's all Mel Gibson's fault, have I added another?

IX

=======

A Sunday School student was asked to list the Ten Commandments in any order.

He wrote, "3, 6, 1, 4, 8, 5, 9, 10, 2, 7".

[al_c]

Looks like a spat between Mack/Becky and AAABEST plus the fact that removing the offensive post might have messed up the thread. That's my take on it all. I wonder if something was going on between them on other threads.

How've you been, Lucky?

[al_c]

FM to you.

[SoothingDave]

I always thought confession would go a lot quicker (especially when they have these massive evening events prior to Easter and Christmas) if we could just tell the priest, "1, 4, 6, and 7." ;-)

SD

[SoothingDave]

return

[Mr. Lucky]

Good, thanks for asking.

I've been meaning to ask you a question of ecumenical protocol. I recently attended the funeral mass of the mother of a dear friend. While distribution of the Lord's Supper is permitted only to Catholics, it is the custom in this parish that other Christians may come forward and receive a blessing. Knowing that Christ is truly present at the Eucharist, I've always viewed the blessing as a true expression of God's Grace.

As this particular Mass, attendance was so great that the parish priest was assisted by a retired priest; when it came my turn, he administered the sacrament rather than merely a blessing. I would never seek to receive a sacrament to which I'm not entitled. Is there an accepted protocol for such situations?