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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
But God is God.
...unlikely and unscriptural that God created anything that...displeases Him.
Really? God DID create viruses, however, and earthquakes and Judas and cancer and democrats and lice and the French. So God did create things that are, in and of themselves, not "good."
Realize that you say God is "pleased" by man's free will, yet that same free will, according to you, is what enables man to sin in the first place. Do you see the illogic here?
Did He not pronounce the entire creation good?
God said it was all good BEFORE the Fall, after which time sin entered the world.
But Adam's Fall did not surprise God, anymore than our sin surprises God. It was and is all part of God's plan for His creation. It can be nothing else, if He is God. Thus, whatever God does is "good," because it accomplishes His holy purpose.
Everything is created to reflect God's glory -- the love we have for our children, the love God has for us, and most especially, the love we have for Him.
Furthering His glory is not God's only purpose.
It is the first commandment, more important than all others.
"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork." -- Psalm 19:1.
It is the reason for our being.
I'm sorry my posts have come across as prideful to you.
Why care? What difference does it make? I care because I don't want to see anyone go to Hell. I care because I want to be obedient to God who said we are to go and preach the Gospel to every creature. Who am I to pick and choose who to tell? I don't know who is part of the Elect and who are not. It's my job to present the Gospel and it is God's job to give the increase. How do I know that God won't all of a sudden give an increase in Steven's life after hearing this a millionth time?
From my prespective I see things right the opposite. I wish there were more non-believers hanging out here to hear the "word" over and over and just maybe some of it might sink in. It really bothers me though when people we are working with have other Christians come in and tell them they are either in or out depending on whether God enie, minied them to Hell or Heaven before they were created. Why should they care about accepting Christ if told their future decided a long time ago?
I don't see those who share my perspective telling people it doesn't matter what they do. I see those opposed to my side telling others that based on my views it doesn't matter.
Most Calvinists have just as strong a passion for the souls of the lost as most Non-Calvinists.
I think I can admit that... ;-)
Otherwise the post seems to adequately describe the Calvanist position. I don't agree that it approaches the Truth any close than Dave does. As I'm sure he said - Catholics absolutely accept predestination... AND free will. I hope you took that other post as tongue in cheek as it was intended however - I meant no offense.
If that person does not come to Christ, it was also God's will, no matter how fervently you preach the Gospel. If God wants someone, what could possibly be strong enough to keep that person from God's grasp?
Squash hope.
To believe that God is in control of all our lives, and that God will not let any of His sheep be lost, and that only God truly knows the wheat from the tares, and that what may look to us like a tare may yet prove to be wheat, if it is God's will, is the most hopeful, egalitarian of beliefs.
If yes, can your name be erased?
"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." -- Matthew 20:28
"If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were lost before He died. If the doctrine be true, that He died for all men, then He died for some who were in Hell before He came into this world, for doubtless there were even then myriads there who had been cast away because of their sins. . . That seems to me a conception a thousand times more repulsive than any of those consequences which are said to be associated with the Calvinistic and Christian doctrine of special and particular redemption. To think that my Savior died for men who were or are in Hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to entertain." (Charles Spurgeon, Autobiography: 1, The Early Years, p. 172)
"We are often told that we limit the atonement of Christ, because we say that Christ has not made satisfaction for all men, or all men would be saved. Now, our reply to this is that, on the other hand, our opponents limit it, we do not. The Arminians say, Christ died for all men. Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, 'No, certainly not.' We ask them the next question--Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They say, 'No.' They are obliged to admit this if they are consistent. They say, 'No; Christ has died so that any man may be saved if'-and then follow certain conditions of salvation. We say then, we will just go back to the old statement-Christ did not die so as beyond a doubt to secure the salvation of anybody, did He? You must say 'No;' you are obliged to say so, for you believe that even after a man has been pardoned, he may yet fall from grace and perish. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why you... We say Christ so died that He infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it."
(Charles Spurgeon, Sermon 181, New Park Street Pulpit, IV, p. 135)
You've confused the issue now. Is there a "why" that I'm missing? Or do stay in the "spirit of the season" well past (whatever date my wife thinks the tree MUST come down.)??
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