Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

But Is Mel Gibson Catholic?
Pangaeus ^

Posted on 01/11/2004 5:56:57 AM PST by NYer

Everybody likes Mel Gibson. He’s an award-winning actor, he’s box-office gold and he seems like a nice guy. But because of his fame and The Passion, his forthcoming movie about Christ, a lot of his fans would like to be clear on where he stands with respect to the Catholic Church, a Dallas-based author says.


Kevin Orlin Johnson, Ph.D., is an associate of the Canon Law Society of America and a best-selling writer whose book Rosary: Mysteries, Meditations, and the Telling of the Beads includes one of the most graphic accounts of the Crucifixion ever published. He’ll definitely see Gibson’s film about the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. But Gibson’s campaign to build a church in Malibu, California, raises some serious issues about the actor’s relationship with the Catholic Church.


“You can’t just build your own church,” Johnson says. Parishes are geographical entities, set up by bishops in conformance with the Church’s laws and subject to their authority. “There are no free-lance churches in the Catholic Church. You live in a parish, and you go to its church.” Every place in California is already part of a parish, which has its own church.


Gibson’s parish, then, would be the aptly named Our Lady of Malibu on Winter Canyon Road, Johnson says, looking through a Los Angeles Catholic directory. But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor’s privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it’s schismatic, not a Catholic church at all.


The Church’s Code of Canon Law defines schism--separation from the Church--as “the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” Gibson’s father, Houston, Texas resident Hutton Gibson, is an outspoken critic of the Catholic Church and a vocal adherent of the “sedevacantist” movement, so called from the Latin phrase meaning “empty seat”--their claim being that every pope since 1960 has been spurious.


While Gibson himself is said to disagree with his father on many counts, the actor has been quoted often as waxing nostalgic for the Mass said in Latin and the doctrines as they were for almost 2000 years. But, as Johnson explains in his booklet What About the Latin Mass?, the Latin Mass that traditionalists long for is nothing like 2000 years old--the early Mass was often in Greek, and Gibson probably remembers only the Latin Mass that wasn’t finalized until 1962. “So if he was born in 1956,” Johnson says, “his Latin Mass is really younger than he is himself.” That Latin version is still used in the Church by special permission, and it’s actively encouraged by authentic Catholic organizations like the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, headquartered in Elmhurst, Pennsylvania.


The difference is that these groups nurture the Latin Mass in full unity with the Catholic Church. “Fringe groups who reject Vatican II stand away from the Church and go off on their own,” he says. “They’re largely reacting to the sloppy or even destructive way in which Vatican II’s decrees were put into effect here in the United States.”


Vatican II--officially the Second Vatican Council--was convened by Pope John XXIII in 1962 and strove to clarify the Church’s activities to better serve the modern world, mandating simplification of the liturgy and the use of the local vernacular languages instead of Latin everywhere.


“Of course, you have to use the liturgy as a way to look to the substance of the Faith,” Johnson says. “You can’t just stop at appearances.” Vatican II mandated no changes in Church doctrine whatever--“the Church’s teachings are the teachings of Christ,” he says, “and therefore no human agency can add to them or take any away, and the Church never has,” although many Catholics still seem to be confused about that point.


Johnson believes that the confusion started when American bishops took Vatican II as an excuse to sweep away any part of the Church that they didn’t like personally--“not just the Latin of the liturgy but, as we’ve seen, even the most basic doctrines of human decency.” Since 1993, more than 80 percent of the Catholic bishops in the United States have been directly implicated in court cases of priestly pedophilia or in using their positions to shield such activity over the past 40 years or more, according to a study compiled by reporters Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin of the Dallas Morning News last year.


That corruption of the clergy makes it hard to find authentic teaching or authentic liturgy in the United States today, Johnson says, but it doesn’t mean that people can just run out and start up their own church instead. The new English Mass is perfectly legitimate and a lot closer to the simplicity of early-Christian practice--when Latin itself was the vernacular, the everyday language of the people. And with a little effort, he says, “you can get a Latin Mass celebrated regularly at your proper parish, and know that you’re doing so in full communion with the Church that really is almost 2000 years old.”


So where does that leave Gibson? “Well, I hope he’s Catholic," Johnson says. "We’d love to have him.” END


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: canonlaw; catholic; gibson; latin; mass; novusordo; vcii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 161-170 next last
To: nickcarraway
There were long private chapels all over Europe.
61 posted on 01/11/2004 6:02:08 PM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Mel Gisbson, by his own admission, is a Roman Catholic, not a Catholic.

There is a hyge difference in the two, a Roman Catholic is one who abides by the doctrines, teachings and traditions of the church of Rome.

A Catholic is a Born Again Christian, all who make up the body of the church, the bride of Christ.

62 posted on 01/11/2004 6:04:10 PM PST by kentuckyusa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
By their fruits you will know them.

An isolated event does not reveal a pattern and you will not know them as meant in the Bible verse. If I judged, forget his name ... er Spielberg,soley by his Prince of Egypt movie I'd be in big trouble. Plus the movie was inaccurate even by Old Testament standards.
63 posted on 01/11/2004 6:04:41 PM PST by nmh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
"It has God's "fingerprints" all over it."

I agree and Gibson opened his heart and his wallet and followed the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
64 posted on 01/11/2004 6:07:28 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
"At least I know the SSPX are Catholic. I'll go there before I set foot in the TajMahony."

Ditto. ;)
65 posted on 01/11/2004 6:08:09 PM PST by Tantumergo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
"It's a shack!"
66 posted on 01/11/2004 6:08:28 PM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
Oops only scanned your answer ... .


" ... a faith nurtured by Tradition."

That can be very problematic since alot of "tradition" is at odds with the Bible. There are threads discussing this, as we converse on this website.


What, besides scandals and equivocation, have been the fruits of the Novus Ordo Church?

I honestly couldn't tell you since I've never heard of them before. In fact, I don't want to know. Most likely I will see the movie and see if it aligns with Scripture. That book I KNOW. If it does I will recommend it. It it doesn't I won't.
67 posted on 01/11/2004 6:09:40 PM PST by nmh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Tantumergo
Rather than asking whether Gibson is a Catholic, they ought to be asking whether Mahoney is a Catholic.

Supercalafragilisticexpealidotious bump.

Why is it that a Hollywood actor has the minutae of his orthodoxy placed under a microscope, while we have bishops walking a fine line between Catholicism and "I AM the Church"?

68 posted on 01/11/2004 6:10:39 PM PST by Snuffington
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: NYer
“You can’t just build your own church,” Johnson says.

What a stupid comment! Of course you can. You just can't make it into a parish willy nilly. I have a couple of wealthy friends who have just gone and "built their own Church" on their property.

69 posted on 01/11/2004 6:11:45 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tantumergo
Rather than asking whether Gibson is a Catholic, they ought to be asking whether Mahoney is a Catholic.

Many of us across the pond are praying for Cardinal Mahoney's conversion to Catholicism!

70 posted on 01/11/2004 6:16:22 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
"I have a couple of wealthy friends who have just gone and "built their own Church" on their property."

If they are not God-parents of your existing children, produce another child before you fall out with them!!!

;)
71 posted on 01/11/2004 6:18:14 PM PST by Tantumergo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Coleus
In Gibson's case, the priest can not perform sacraments since he's not in concert with the Holy See.

Are you sure? A traditionalist chapel around here made by fine for years with a retired priest from the diocese coming to say Mass every day.

72 posted on 01/11/2004 6:20:01 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
"Many of us across the pond are praying for Cardinal Mahoney's conversion to Catholicism!"

Believe me I know how you feel! We haven't been so deprived of Catholic bishops in England since the days of Elizabeth I.
73 posted on 01/11/2004 6:21:46 PM PST by Tantumergo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: onedoug
A VERY expensive shack.
74 posted on 01/11/2004 6:28:10 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Snuffington
The Latin Mass wasn't finalized until 1962???? What about Pope St.Pius V issuing "Quo Primum" in 1570 that codified the Mass. If the Mass wasn't finalized then it wasn't finalized at all.
75 posted on 01/11/2004 6:47:13 PM PST by sontaran_army (stand fast to tradition)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
A traditionalist chapel around here made by fine for years with a retired priest from the diocese coming to say Mass every day.>>>

If the church is under the auspices of the bishop then it's ok. I know of one where the mass (novus ordo) is celebrated in Latin, the women wear veils and they kneel down for communion but it's ok because the order of priests have permission from the local Ordinary, the bishop; therefore, it comes under the auspices of the Catholic Church. The bishop gave permission for the church to be used for this purpose and gave permission for the priests to celebrate this type of mass.
76 posted on 01/11/2004 6:49:38 PM PST by Coleus (Merry Christmas, Jesus is the Reason for the Season, Keep Christ in CHRISTmas and the X's out of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: nmh
There are parts of the New Testament that are "at odds with " other parts. Luther had a hard time with "James"and with "Matthew" because neither fits snuggly into his "Pauline" theology.
77 posted on 01/11/2004 7:02:48 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: sontaran_army
The mass I knew growing up was the product of a process begun by Pius X. Or did you think the old "dialogue" mass was something that came from the counterreformation?
78 posted on 01/11/2004 7:05:33 PM PST by RobbyS (XPqu)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
oops, just checked, the Mass is Tridentine and is under the full auspices of the Bishop and RCC. It's up to the local ordinary to decide, in Gibson's church, it's not approved by his bishop; therefore, it's not under the RCC.
79 posted on 01/11/2004 7:12:09 PM PST by Coleus (Merry Christmas, Jesus is the Reason for the Season, Keep Christ in CHRISTmas and the X's out of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
My understanding of schism is this: a priest or society must have the intention of separating themselves from the Pope by denying his authority to command. Essentially, I think that is sedevacantism.

I should restate this. I should have said that sedevacantists recognize the authority of a Pope to command, but they believe the Holy See is vacant for some reason such as heresy therefore there is no authority to obey.

80 posted on 01/11/2004 7:13:51 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 161-170 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson