Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

But Is Mel Gibson Catholic?
Pangaeus ^

Posted on 01/11/2004 5:56:57 AM PST by NYer

Everybody likes Mel Gibson. He’s an award-winning actor, he’s box-office gold and he seems like a nice guy. But because of his fame and The Passion, his forthcoming movie about Christ, a lot of his fans would like to be clear on where he stands with respect to the Catholic Church, a Dallas-based author says.


Kevin Orlin Johnson, Ph.D., is an associate of the Canon Law Society of America and a best-selling writer whose book Rosary: Mysteries, Meditations, and the Telling of the Beads includes one of the most graphic accounts of the Crucifixion ever published. He’ll definitely see Gibson’s film about the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. But Gibson’s campaign to build a church in Malibu, California, raises some serious issues about the actor’s relationship with the Catholic Church.


“You can’t just build your own church,” Johnson says. Parishes are geographical entities, set up by bishops in conformance with the Church’s laws and subject to their authority. “There are no free-lance churches in the Catholic Church. You live in a parish, and you go to its church.” Every place in California is already part of a parish, which has its own church.


Gibson’s parish, then, would be the aptly named Our Lady of Malibu on Winter Canyon Road, Johnson says, looking through a Los Angeles Catholic directory. But, according to The New York Times Magazine, the actor’s privately funded Church of the Holy Family in Malibu is not affiliated with any diocese. So, according to Church law, it’s schismatic, not a Catholic church at all.


The Church’s Code of Canon Law defines schism--separation from the Church--as “the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” Gibson’s father, Houston, Texas resident Hutton Gibson, is an outspoken critic of the Catholic Church and a vocal adherent of the “sedevacantist” movement, so called from the Latin phrase meaning “empty seat”--their claim being that every pope since 1960 has been spurious.


While Gibson himself is said to disagree with his father on many counts, the actor has been quoted often as waxing nostalgic for the Mass said in Latin and the doctrines as they were for almost 2000 years. But, as Johnson explains in his booklet What About the Latin Mass?, the Latin Mass that traditionalists long for is nothing like 2000 years old--the early Mass was often in Greek, and Gibson probably remembers only the Latin Mass that wasn’t finalized until 1962. “So if he was born in 1956,” Johnson says, “his Latin Mass is really younger than he is himself.” That Latin version is still used in the Church by special permission, and it’s actively encouraged by authentic Catholic organizations like the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, headquartered in Elmhurst, Pennsylvania.


The difference is that these groups nurture the Latin Mass in full unity with the Catholic Church. “Fringe groups who reject Vatican II stand away from the Church and go off on their own,” he says. “They’re largely reacting to the sloppy or even destructive way in which Vatican II’s decrees were put into effect here in the United States.”


Vatican II--officially the Second Vatican Council--was convened by Pope John XXIII in 1962 and strove to clarify the Church’s activities to better serve the modern world, mandating simplification of the liturgy and the use of the local vernacular languages instead of Latin everywhere.


“Of course, you have to use the liturgy as a way to look to the substance of the Faith,” Johnson says. “You can’t just stop at appearances.” Vatican II mandated no changes in Church doctrine whatever--“the Church’s teachings are the teachings of Christ,” he says, “and therefore no human agency can add to them or take any away, and the Church never has,” although many Catholics still seem to be confused about that point.


Johnson believes that the confusion started when American bishops took Vatican II as an excuse to sweep away any part of the Church that they didn’t like personally--“not just the Latin of the liturgy but, as we’ve seen, even the most basic doctrines of human decency.” Since 1993, more than 80 percent of the Catholic bishops in the United States have been directly implicated in court cases of priestly pedophilia or in using their positions to shield such activity over the past 40 years or more, according to a study compiled by reporters Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin of the Dallas Morning News last year.


That corruption of the clergy makes it hard to find authentic teaching or authentic liturgy in the United States today, Johnson says, but it doesn’t mean that people can just run out and start up their own church instead. The new English Mass is perfectly legitimate and a lot closer to the simplicity of early-Christian practice--when Latin itself was the vernacular, the everyday language of the people. And with a little effort, he says, “you can get a Latin Mass celebrated regularly at your proper parish, and know that you’re doing so in full communion with the Church that really is almost 2000 years old.”


So where does that leave Gibson? “Well, I hope he’s Catholic," Johnson says. "We’d love to have him.” END


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: canonlaw; catholic; gibson; latin; mass; novusordo; vcii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140 ... 161-170 next last
To: Mike Darancette
Then, again, The Catholic Church did not exist at the point in time described by Gibson's movie.

?

And the New Testament did?

101 posted on 01/12/2004 5:53:19 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
This is why the SSPX is not in schism but in an irregular situation with Rome.

Thus understood, schism is a genus which embraces two distinct species: heretical or mixed schism and schism pure and simple. The first has its source in heresy or joined with it, the second, which most theologians designate absolutely as schism, is the rupture of the bond of subordination without an accompanying persistent error, directly opposed to a definite dogma. This distinction was drawn by St. Jerome and St. Augustine. "Between heresy and schism", explains St. Jerome, "there is this difference, that heresy perverts dogma, while schism, by rebellion against the bishop, separates from the Church.

Schism
Catholic Encyclopedia


102 posted on 01/12/2004 6:03:41 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: kentuckyusa
A Catholic is a Born Again Christian

Yes, if by that you mean baptized (born of water and the Spirit). You'll find that and more in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"Roman Catholic Church" is the colloquial way of referring to both the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church and to the Catholic Church as a whole.

103 posted on 01/12/2004 6:20:49 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: nmh
That can be very problematic since alot of "tradition" is at odds with the Bible.

Some oral Tradition was eventually written down and became... the Bible. Some Tradition has never been written down. It was the Church which wrote, preserved and canonized Sacred Scripture and it is the Church which derives correct doctrine from Tradition, both oral and written. The Bible itself calls the Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth." This is logical and, in fact, logically necessary if we are to believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. The Bible didn't canonize itself.

104 posted on 01/12/2004 6:27:25 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio; Hermann the Cherusker
Posted by ultima ratio to Polycarp; narses; sinkspur; Canticle_of_Deborah; Loyalist; Maximilian; Land of the Irish; ...

On Religion 09/26/2003 10:57:13 PM EDT #118 of 170

Good-bye all. I have said everything I've wanted to say for quite a while now and it's time to stop. This will be my last post. I need to get back to basics and spend more time with my family. Adios and God bless.

Well, so much for the basics and the family, huh?

105 posted on 01/12/2004 7:05:21 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Catholicguy; ultima ratio
Had to get one in there, eh? :-Þ
106 posted on 01/12/2004 7:09:03 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

To: NYer
“You can’t just build your own church,” Johnson says. Parishes are geographical entities, set up by bishops in conformance with the Church’s laws and subject to their authority. “There are no free-lance churches in the Catholic Church.

He is, generally, right here. No Jurisdiction, No Ministry is the law of Catholicism.

Rome evil, Me Orthodox, is the law of Schism.

Still this oblique attack on Gibson has zip to do with the Passion.

107 posted on 01/12/2004 7:09:05 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
APOSTOLIC LETTER

"ECCLESIA DEI"

OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF

JOHN PAUL II

GIVEN MOTU PROPRIO

1. With great affliction the Church has learned of the unlawful episcopal ordination conferred on 30 June last by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, which has frustrated all the efforts made during the previous years to ensure the full communion with the Church of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X founded by the same Mons. Lefebvre. These efforts, especially intense during recent months, in which the Apostolic See has shown comprehension to the limits of the possible, were all to no avail.(1)

2. This affliction was particularly felt by the Successor Peter to whom in the first place pertains the guardianship of the unity of the Church,(2) even though the number of persons directly involved in these events might be few. For every person is loved by God on his own account and has been redeemed by the blood of Christ shed on the Cross for the salvation of all.

The particular circumstances, both objective and subjective in which Archbishop Lefebvre acted, provide everyone with an occasion for profound reflection and for a renewed pledge of fidelity to Christ and to his Church.

3. In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.(4)

4. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth".(5)

But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church.(6)

5. Faced with the situation that has arisen I deem it my duty to inform all the Catholic faithful of some aspects which this sad event has highlighted.

a) The outcome of the movement promoted by Mons. Lefebvre can and must be, for all the Catholic faithful, a motive for sincere reflection concerning their own fidelity to the Church's Tradition, authentically interpreted by the ecclesiastical Magisterium, ordinary and extraordinary, especially in the Ecumenical Councils from Nicaea to Vatican II. From this reflection all should draw a renewed and efficacious conviction of the necessity of strengthening still more their fidelity by rejecting erroneous interpretations and arbitrary and unauthorized applications in matters of doctrine, liturgy and discipline.

To the bishops especially it pertains, by reason of their pastoral mission, to exercise the important duty of a clear-sighted vigilance full of charity and firmness, so that this fidelity may be everywhere safeguarded.(7)

However, it is necessary that all the Pastors and the other faithful have a new awareness, not only of the lawfulness but also of the richness for the Church of a diversity of charisms, traditions of spirituality and apostolate, which also constitutes the beauty of unity in variety: of that blended "harmony" which the earthly Church raises up to Heaven under the impulse of the Holy Spirit.

b) Moreover, I should like to remind theologians and other experts in the ecclesiastical sciences that they should feel themselves called upon to answer in the present circumstances. Indeed, the extent and depth of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council call for a renewed commitment to deeper study in order to reveal clearly the Council's continuity with Tradition, especially in points of doctrine which, perhaps because they are new, have not yet been well understood by some sections of the Church.

c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church's law.(8) To all those Catholic faithful who feel attached to some previous liturgical and disciplinary forms of the Latin tradition I wish to manifest my will to facilitate their ecclesial communion by means of the necessary measures to guarantee respect for their rightful aspirations. In this matter I ask for the support of the bishops and of all those engaged in the pastoral ministry in the Church.

6. Taking account of the importance and complexity of the problems referred to in this document, by virtue of my Apostolic Authority I decree the following:

a) a Commission is instituted whose task it will be to collaborate with the bishops, with the Departments of the Roman Curia and with the circles concerned, for the purpose of facilitating full ecclesial communion of priests, seminarians, religious communities or individuals until now linked in various ways to the Fraternity founded by Mons. Lefebvre, who may wish to remain united to the Successor Peter in the Catholic Church, while preserving their spiritual and liturgical traditions, in the light of the Protocol signed on 5 May last by Cardinal Ratzinger and Mons. Lefebvre;

b) this Commission is composed of a Cardinal President and other members of the Roman Curia, in a number that will be deemed opportune according to circumstances;

c) moreover, respect must everywhere be shown for the feelings of all those who are attached to the Latin liturgical tradition, by a wide and generous application of the directives already issued some time ago by the Apostolic See for the use of the Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962.(9)

7. As this year specially dedicated to the Blessed Virgin is now drawing to a close, I wish to exhort all to join in unceasing prayer that the Vicar of Christ, through the intercession of the Mother of the church, addresses to the Father in the very words of the Son: "That they all may be one!".

Given at Rome, at St. Peter's. 2 July 1988, the tenth year of the pontificate.

Joannes Paulus PP. II

(1)Cf. "Informatory Note" of 16 June 1988: L'Osservatore Romano. English edition, 27 June 1988, pp. 1-2.

(2)Cf. Vatican Council I, Const. Pastor Æternus, cap. 3: DS 3060.

(3)Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 751.

(4)Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 1382.

(5)Vatican Council II. Const. Dei Verbum, n. 8. Cf. Vatican Council I, Const. Dei Filius, cap. 4: DS 3020.

(6)Cf. Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16; Vatican Council I, Const. Pastor Æternus, cap. 3: DS 3060.

(7)Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 386; Paul VI. Apost. Exhort. Quinque iam anni, 8 Dec. 1970: AAS 63 (1971) pp. 97-106.

(8)Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 1364.

(9)Cf. Congregation for Divine Worship, Letter Quattuor abhinc annos. 3 Oct. 1984: AAS 76 (1984) pp. 1088-1089.

108 posted on 01/12/2004 7:19:11 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: sydney smith
That you know their names illustrates they are atypical.
109 posted on 01/12/2004 7:29:39 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Canticle_of_Deborah
I'd attend the Bishop's Cathedral Mass
110 posted on 01/12/2004 7:31:58 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
What,... , have been the fruits of the Novus Ordo Church? Well, you for one.

EVERY Ecumenical Council has been followed by schism, heresies ect.

< There is nothing new under the sun and there is certainly nothing new from you. You just came back to repeat the same old tired discredited excuses for your schism.

111 posted on 01/12/2004 7:36:24 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Hermann the Cherusker
Bishop has Jurisdiction.

Can. 1013 No Bishop is permitted to consecrate anyone as Bishop, unless it is first established that a pontifical mandate has been issued.

Can. 1014 Unless a dispensation has been granted by the Apostolic See, the principal consecrating Bishop at an episcopal consecration is to have at least two other consecrating Bishops with him. It is, however, entirely appropriate that all the Bishops present should join with these in consecrating the Bishop-elect.

Can. 1015 §1 Each candidate is to be ordained to the priesthood or to the diaconate by his proper Bishop, or with lawful dimissorial letters granted by that Bishop.

§2 If not impeded from doing so by a just reason, a Bishop is himself to ordain his own subjects. He may not, however, without an apostolic indult lawfully ordain a subject of an oriental rite.

§3 Anyone who is entitled to give dimissorial letters for the reception of orders may also himself confer these orders, if he is a Bishop.

Can. 1016 In what concerns the ordination to the diaconate of those who intend to enrol themselves in the secular clergy, the proper Bishop is the Bishop of the diocese in which the aspirant has a domicile, or the Bishop of the diocese to which he intends to devote himself. In what concerns the priestly ordination of the secular clergy, it is the Bishop of the diocese in which the aspirant was incardinated by the diaconate.

Can. 1017 A Bishop may not confer orders outside his own jurisdiction except with the permission of the diocesan Bishop.

Can. 1018 §1 The following can give dimissorial letters for the secular clergy:

1° the proper Bishop mentioned in can. 1016;

2° the apostolic Administrator; with the consent of the college of consultors, the diocesan Administrator; with the consent of the council mentioned in can. 495 §2, the Pro-vicar and Pro-prefect apostolic.

§2 The diocesan Administrator, the Pro-vicar and Pro-prefect apostolic are not to give dimissorial letters to those to whom admission to orders was refused by the diocesan Bishop or by the Vicar or Prefect apostolic.

Can. 1019 §1 It belongs to the major Superior of a clerical religious institute of pontifical right or of a clerical society of apostolic life of pontifical right to grant dimissorial letters for the diaconate and for the priesthood to his subjects who are, in accordance with the constitutions, perpetually or definitively enrolled in the institute or society.

§2 The ordination of all other candidates of whatever institute or society, is governed by the law applying to the secular clergy, any indult whatsoever granted to Superiors being revoked.

Can. 1020 Dimissorial letters are not to be granted unless all the testimonials and documents required by the law in accordance with cann. 1050 and 1051 have first been obtained.

Can. 1021 Dimissorial letters may be sent to any Bishop in communion with the Apostolic See, but not to a Bishop of a rite other than that of the ordinand, unless there is an apostolic indult.

Can. 1022 When the ordaining Bishop has received the prescribed dimissorial letters, he may proceed to the ordination only when the authenticity of these letters is established beyond any doubt whatever.

Can. 1023 Dimissorial letters can be limited or can be revoked by the person granting them or by his successor; once granted, they do not lapse on the expiry of the grantor's authority.

I don't think Gibson, or any other Catholic, can, without the permission of the local Bishop,just set up his own Chapel and invite whomever he desires to offer Mass.

CHAPTER II : ORATORIES AND PRIVATE CHAPELS

Can. 1223 An oratory means a place which, by permission of the Ordinary, is set aside for divine worship, for the convenience of some community or group of the faithful who assemble there, to which however other members of the faithful may, with the consent of the competent Superior, have access.

Can. 1224 §1 The Ordinary is not to give the permission required for setting up an oratory unless he has first, personally or through another, inspected the place destined for the oratory and found it to be becomingly arranged.

§2 Once this permission has been given, the oratory cannot be converted to a secular usage without the authority of the same Ordinary.

Can. 1225 All sacred services may be celebrated in a lawfully constituted oratory, apart from those which are excluded by the law, by a provision of the local Ordinary, or by liturgical laws.

Can. 1226 The term private chapel means a place which, by permission of the local Ordinary, is set aside for divine worship, for the convenience of one or more individuals.

Can. 1227 Bishops can set up for their own use a private chapel which enjoys the same rights as an oratory.

Can. 1228 Without prejudice to the provision of Can. 1227, the permission of the local Ordinary is required for the celebration of Mass and of other sacred functions in any private chapel.

Can. 1229 It is appropriate that oratories and private chapels be blessed according to the rite prescribed in the liturgical books. They must, however, be reserved for divine worship only and be freed from all domestic use.

112 posted on 01/12/2004 7:54:42 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480
It was my Catholic Tit in reply to his Shismatic tat - and, if that line doesn't invite any number of responses...
113 posted on 01/12/2004 7:57:02 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 106 | View Replies]

To: kentuckyusa
For we have nothing in commoon with them as articulated by God through His apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:14 and on.

I agree, "Born Again Christians" are fully neither.

114 posted on 01/12/2004 8:00:14 AM PST by conservonator (To be Catholic is to enjoy the fullness of Christian faith.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
I am not going to argue with you, I am well aware of the fact that to tell the truth about the religon called Roman Catholicsm is to be banned.

So, It will surfice to say that I could not disagree with you more and time will tell, for as the writer of Hebrews has told us, And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

115 posted on 01/12/2004 8:05:55 AM PST by kentuckyusa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 103 | View Replies]

To: missyme
There is a great program on Discovery Channel right now Sunday 7:00 pst regarding John and The Book of Revelation if anyome is interested

From the previews, it seemed like it might be pretty good. How was it?

116 posted on 01/12/2004 8:22:43 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: ultima ratio
It has God's "fingerprints" all over it.

Yes. Because the project itself, and the results that are already evident, plus the results after the film is released, are all so clearly beyond human calculation.

117 posted on 01/12/2004 10:09:13 AM PST by Maximilian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Aquinasfan
That can be very problematic since alot of "tradition" is at odds with the Bible.


You: Some oral Tradition was eventually written down and became... the Bible."

Such as ... ?

"Some Tradition has never been written down. It was the Church which wrote, preserved and canonized Sacred Scripture and it is the Church which derives correct doctrine from Tradition, both oral and written."

Tradition is is more of a ritual and may be in conflict with Biblical teachings.

"The Bible itself calls the Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth." This is logical and, in fact, logically necessary if we are to believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. The Bible didn't canonize itself."


The "church" is the body of believers not a formal organization. Atleast that is what the Bible states. Christ is the cornerstone and the foundation of the body of believers in Him, the "church". You definitions are way off and not Biblical.
118 posted on 01/12/2004 10:17:18 AM PST by nmh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: Tantumergo
I think the whole premise of this article sets out on the wrong tack. Rather than asking whether Gibson is a Catholic, they ought to be asking whether Mahoney is a Catholic.

Bishops like Mahoney, Clark, Hubbard, and others have put the faithful under their jurisdiction into a terrible quandry. Is one to obey their local ordinary when that individual is teaching things that are clearly contrary to the teachings of the Vatican and Church tradition? In the case of Cardinal Mahoney, who is seems to be in obvious schism in everything but name, are the Catholics of LA supposed to follow him without question or rebel?

Honestly, I think the old Italian version of active rebellion is preferable to the lukewarm rebellion of simply walking away from the Church or ignoring the ordinary's commands. A big, raucous crowd in front of the chancery pleading that the Pope remove the offending bishop immediately might get some peoples' attention.
119 posted on 01/12/2004 10:51:25 AM PST by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces †)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
"Is one to obey their local ordinary when that individual is teaching things that are clearly contrary to the teachings of the Vatican and Church tradition?"

I'm certain that St. Thomas has written that "No-one owes any sort of obedience to a heretic."

I'm not sure where he says this though, so maybe somebody more knowledgeable will be able to oblige?

Having said that, the first step in any resistance ought to be the bringing of a heresy trial against the alleged heretical prelate. The difficulty with this would be finding any non-heretical bishops with the balls to judge their brother!
120 posted on 01/12/2004 11:13:58 AM PST by Tantumergo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140 ... 161-170 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson