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Jewish and Christian leaders launch countermissionary campaign [Fighting "Jews for Jesus" people]
Jerusalem Post ^ | Aug. 27, 2003

Posted on 08/27/2003 2:00:45 PM PDT by yonif

B'nai Brith Canada today announced the launch of a campaign to inform members of Toronto's Jewish community about the activities of "Jews for Jesus."

Calling it the "Proud to be Jewish" Campaign," B'nai Brith's goal is to warn members of the Toronto Jewish community about the presence and methods of the missionary group and to advise them of their rights.

"This isn't about free speech," said Rochelle Wilner, president of B'nai Brith Canada. "Targeted missionizing, especially when done in a manner calculated to deceive the unsuspecting, is offensive to our community. Christianity is not a branch of Judaism it's a different religion altogether, and any attempt to portray it as anything but a different religion is subterfuge. "The term 'Jews for Jesus' makes about as much sense as 'Baptists for Buddha' or 'Catholics for Krishna,'" she said.

"We didn't want this to be just another lesson in how to answer," said Frank Dimant, executive vice president.

"Some in our community are simply not capable of countering missionaries because they have received little formal Jewish education.

"We want members of our community to know that they don't have to defend Judaism to Christian missionaries they have an absolute right to not be subjected to these ministrations in the first place."

Dr. Charles McVety, president of Canada Christian College and a leader in Canada's evangelical Christian community, spoke as well. "As a committed Christian I support the idea of preaching Christianity, but preaching Christianity under the guise of Judaism to those who are in fact seeking Judaism, is plainly wrong," said McVety.

"We unequivocally denounce any and all deceptive tactics."


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Israel; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: christians; evangelism; israel; jesus; jews; jewsforjesus; messiah; missionaries
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To: montag813
Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach.

Have you ever looked at the methods of Jews for Jesus? Go to their web site. There is no indicaction of the deception you claim. It is very clearly stated that Jesus is the focus of their ministry. There is not a hint that Judaism is what they are pointing at!

61 posted on 08/27/2003 3:24:05 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: MarkL
It doesn't matter what one was before the acceptance of a set of beliefs in a faith. What matters is what one is now...

Bingo. They should be called, "I used to be a Jew, now I'm for Jesus"

62 posted on 08/27/2003 3:26:23 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: adam_az
"many Christian rituals were really adapted from the cult of Mithraism."

I'm not sure what rituals you're talking about. The central Christian rituals are Baptism and the Eucharist, both of which had antecedents in Judaism. The Eucharist seems directly derived from the Passover meal.
63 posted on 08/27/2003 3:27:50 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle (uo)
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To: AnalogReigns
"Most Christian rituals have pagan, not Jewish roots."

HMMM. Somebody has been reading anti-Christian hate literature, which seeks to completely invalidate Christian theology. Very telling. How communist.

The attitude is "don't you dare compare Christianity to Judaism in any way, because it is not worthy."

64 posted on 08/27/2003 3:28:46 PM PDT by At _War_With_Liberals (If Hillary ever takes the oath of office, she will be the last President the US will ever have. -RR)
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To: Dataman
Jews for Jesus is not a cult?

Here some interesting reading from Cult News

"Southern California targeted by "Jews for Jesus"

Southern California residents can look forward to more than Santa this December. The so-called "Jews for Jesus" will be rolling out yet another round of their brand of proselytizing aimed at Jews called "Operation Behold your God," reports the Christian Times. This will be a "multi-pronged effort." The California blitz is "part of a four-year campaign…launched in October 2000" to target Jews "in every city worldwide with a Jewish population of 25,000 or more." "Jews for Jesus" have put 66 such cities on a list, with 33 in the U.S. This effort may include unsolicited and targeted mailings, phone calls and "street evangelism."

"Jews for Jesus" is the brainchild of former Jew Martin Rosen, an ordained Baptist pastor who once worked for the American Board of Missions to the Jews. Rosen apparently wanted to run his own shop, so in the 70s he started up a new ministry and came up with a name that got him attention.

Pastor Martin is now retired and presumably living on a pension provided by "Jews for Jesus." But the ministry he founded now has multi-million dollar annual budgets. "Jews for Jesus" is a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, a Christian organization that includes many para-church groups.

However, though Rosen proved to be a highly innovative and successful fund-raiser "Jews for Jesus" never really has been that successful at persuading Jews to accept its blended brand of fundamentalist Christianity.

When Jews leave Judaism they are more likely to embrace Buddhism, or in a mixed marriage with a non-Jewish spouse enter the Unitarian Church or some more liberal "mainline" church.

Ironically, the conversion rate to Judaism by Christians seems to exceed anything "Jews for Jesus" have ever specifically accomplished. And that has been achieved without spending millions of dollars annually on glitzy campaigns.

What Rosen did accomplish was to effectively create a kind of organizational kingdom. And he identified an inventive way to subsidize the salaries within that enterprise by raising millions of dollars annually from evangelical Christians.

The problem posed by organizations like Rosen's isn't really their missionary work. "Jews for Jesus" certainly have the right to preach to their heart's content. The United States is a free country that constitutionally and culturally insures such free speech and religious pluralism.

Neither is the issue that "Jews for Jesus" is somehow a "cult," though some former members have said they can be authoritarian and abusive.

The troubling issue about "Jews for Jesus" is their insistence that they are "Jews" without qualification and that they can somehow be both Jews and fundamentalist Christians simultaneously.

However, this is really rather self-referentially incoherent. Can a Baptist accept Buddhism and then become a "Baptist for Buddha," or can a Mormon embrace Islam and be a "Mormon for Mohammed"?

No one would take such claims seriously.

But many people seem to assume that Jews are a race or a nationality and not simply a religious group bound by a common faith. And "Jews for Jesus" does nothing to dissuade such misconceptions. In fact, they openly encourage what can be seen as a kind of cryptic anti-Semitism that relies upon such stereotyping and misinformation.

Historically, they have nothing to base such claims upon and rely on a kind of selective biblical exegesis and historical view instead.

Obviously, those who chose to follow Jesus amongst First Century Jewry went their own way and founded a new world religion now known as Christianity. Each faith has its own distinct beliefs, creeds and doctrines and perhaps more importantly the right to determine the parameters of its identity.

Jews that leave Judaism by accepting another religious belief system have always been historically referred to as "apostate Jews." Apostasy is likewise recognized as a term to describe Christians who convert to another faith.

Jews, like Christians, come from many races and national origins. What ultimately makes a Jew is faith, not background. And whatever ambiguity there may be about Jewish heredity is a question that can only be resolved within the organized Jewish community itself.

There is no ambiguity about what Jews are not. Jews are not apostates who have rejected Judaism. All branches of Judaism not only recognize this, but also by the State of Israel through its courts regarding the "right of return" has established this through law. Apostate Jews cannot return to the Jewish homeland exercising their right to return as "Jews."

It seems "Jews for Jesus" wish to disregard these facts and history itself. They appear to believe that they have the right to redefine Jewish identity.

Perhaps "Jews for Jesus" wish to form a kind of ghetto niche for themselves within Christianity. But this does not appear to be a popular idea amongst most evangelicals. Billy Graham has specifically rejected the concept of missionaries targeting a specific religious group.

Jewish-Christian relations have improved substantially in recent years. Roman Catholics in particular have recognized the ethnocentric beliefs and theology of triumphalism that led to tragedies like the Crusades and Inquisitions.

Catholics have made amends and improved interreligious dialog with Jews. Likewise, many Protestant churches within the National and World Council of Churches have largely rejected organized efforts to convert Jews.

Perhaps it is theologically impossible for fundamentalist and evangelical Christians to mirror their more moderate and ecumenical brethren. But Billy Graham's opposition to missionary targeting seems like a meaningful first step at better relations between "born-again" Christians and Jews.

More importantly, recognizing implicit and exclusive right of the organized Jewish community to determine the parameters of its own identity would seem to be the next step in improving relations between the two religious camps.

Christmas is a holiday often associated with good will and kindness.

Hanukkah, which also falls in December, is about something important too. The willingness of Jews to die for the integrity and preservation of Judaism.

Why can't both faiths "behold…God" by internalizing the precepts that have made them both great during the coming holiday season?

http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000257.html

I especially like the part Pastor Martin and his pension. With a budget in the millions, the Baptists really love to fork it over for this bunch.- LOL, I guess if he had called it "Jews for Baptists" it might not have been quite has catchy.

65 posted on 08/27/2003 3:31:10 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: At _War_With_Liberals
Please provide quotes of mine which back up your assertions.

Your assertions:

1) "You believe in limiting free speech, by govt order, if necessary, to quiet beliefs opposed to yours."
(Please post on which message on which thread I've said such a thing)

2) "You are also obsessed with Christian issues, and come out against the Christian position every single time."
(I didn't know there was "a" Christian position common to all sects... Enlighten me, oh educated one.)

3) "YOU are the sick one, THE HATER."
(Feel free to search my comments for one in which I have said that I "hate" Christians. I'd like you to point out which thread and comment number.)

4) "fascists like you"
(I'd like you to point out which thread and comment number I have posted which support fascist ideals.)

I challenge you to back up a single one of your claims, blowhard.
66 posted on 08/27/2003 3:36:19 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: adam_az
This should be interesting.
67 posted on 08/27/2003 3:37:10 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: Steve_Seattle; AnalogReigns
I'll post more detail later if you are interested.
68 posted on 08/27/2003 3:39:33 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: TheOtherOne
This should be interesting.

I wouldn't count on that. :)
69 posted on 08/27/2003 3:41:38 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: Nachum
More importantly, recognizing implicit and exclusive right of the organized Jewish community to determine the parameters of its own identity

And which organized Jewish community would that be??? There are a variety of Jewish denominations the more conservative of which consider the others to be apostate. All seem to believe though its a horror of horrors for a person to be proud of their Jewish heritage, and yet believe that Jesus son of David is the Jewish Messiah. People should be allowed to identify themselves as they wish, and not be bullied into something by intolerance.

As to the snide remarks made about the (still Jewish) Rosen and his success at raising funds...since when is that morally suspect? B'nai b'rith would no doubt have tens of millions more to make them suspect if that is somehow shady.

When all Jews agree on a particular way of belief....and they show equal labeling of "apostate" for the many, many agnostic and atheistic Jews, then the complaint that "Jews who believe Jesus is Messiah just CANNOT be Jewish!" will have some traction.

Until then its just so much anti-Christian bigotry.

70 posted on 08/27/2003 3:52:44 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: adam_az
I am entertained by silence and stupidity - his reply should be good either way.
71 posted on 08/27/2003 4:04:22 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: TheOtherOne
The silence is deafening!
72 posted on 08/27/2003 4:19:03 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: Nachum
"There is no ambiguity about what Jews are not. Jews are not apostates who have rejected Judaism. All branches of Judaism not only recognize this, but also by the State of Israel through its courts regarding the "right of return" has established this through law. Apostate Jews cannot return to the Jewish homeland exercising their right to return as "Jews.""

I think this is either false or misleading. Israel is full of, and accepts, Jews who are atheists or agnostics. Perhaps Israel would not accept one who formally denounced Judaism, but the primary tests for determining who is a Jew are Jewish parentage or formal conversion to Judaism adherence to specific religious beliefs or practices is not required. The only exception to this that I am aware of is for Jews who convert to Christianity - they are no longer considered Jews. I am aware of Jewish Buddhists in Israel, so the definition of "apostasy" must be rather fluid.
73 posted on 08/27/2003 4:36:08 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle (uo)
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To: AnalogReigns
And which organized Jewish community would that be???

That would be: All the major branches of Jewry; Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox, all the Jewish Federations and parent groups world wide, the government of the Jewish state, Israel.

People should be allowed to identify themselves as they wish, and not be bullied into something by intolerance.

Exactly, which is why Jews for Jesus is a lie. It is no more than an apostate Jew Baptist Minister, who was financed by the Baptist Church, overseen by an evengelical financial organization. Jews for Jesus say nothing about their connection to the Baptists, they conceal it. Their own documentation between correspondance with Baptist Church elders says that they intend to dispense with any reference to Judaism at all to future children of the Jews for Jesus converts. All so they can be fully accepted into the Baptist fold.

They are liars, telling a big, fat, whopping, stinking, lie.

You find truth in that? Your charge of "anti-christian" bigotry rings hollow. It is just another slimy attempt of certain cult like groups to "reach out" to Jews.

74 posted on 08/27/2003 4:38:20 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: yonif
Gee, maybe next the Bnai Brith will actually prove that Jews For Jesus actually did deceive people.

But then, as they already know, just the accusation alone can be effective.

However, since their opponents are also Jewish, they can't play the anti-semitism card so easily. They can play it. But it's harder.
75 posted on 08/27/2003 4:43:51 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Steve_Seattle; Alouette; Yehuda
I am aware of Jewish Buddhists in Israel, so the definition of "apostasy" must be rather fluid.

I would disagree that it is deliberately false or misleading. It is regarding the "law of return". I would be interested in seeing how many Jewish converts to Christianity have been granted citizenship under the Law of Return.

76 posted on 08/27/2003 4:48:25 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: montag813
"YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach."

How is it trickery? Jews have an ethnic history and a traditional history that comes by right of birth. It is not fair to say that a Jew that converts to Christianity is no longer a Jew. In fact if you define Jews by the traditional Jewish religion, many Jews are not Jews at all, because many of them are atheist. They have completely lost their faith in God.

They don't understand why God has allowed 2000 years of exile or things like the holocaust to occur. So they assume that He doesn't exist, instead of realizing that they failed to listen to the ancient Jewish prophets when they told them about Jesus. And that failure put them in serious breach of their covenant with God and in serious breach of the commands given by Moses.

77 posted on 08/27/2003 4:53:37 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Nachum
"Perhaps it is theologically impossible for fundamentalist and evangelical Christians to mirror their more moderate and ecumenical brethren."

Like the Episcopalians, I guess.
78 posted on 08/27/2003 4:56:33 PM PDT by ZviTheWise (Silence=Death)
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To: Nachum
...would be interested in seeing how many Jewish converts to Christianity have been granted citizenship under the Law of Return.

Before or after acknowledging their conversion?

79 posted on 08/27/2003 5:00:28 PM PDT by SJackson
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To: Nachum
I would be interested in seeing how many Jewish converts to Christianity have been granted citizenship under the Law of Return.

The Strange Case of "Brother Daniel"

80 posted on 08/27/2003 5:00:53 PM PDT by Alouette (The bombing begins in five minutes.)
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