Jewish and Christian leaders launch countermissionary campaign [Fighting "Jews for Jesus" people]

Jerusalem Post ^ | Aug. 27, 2003

[yonif]

B'nai Brith Canada today announced the launch of a campaign to inform members of Toronto's Jewish community about the activities of "Jews for Jesus."

Calling it the "Proud to be Jewish" Campaign," B'nai Brith's goal is to warn members of the Toronto Jewish community about the presence and methods of the missionary group and to advise them of their rights.

"This isn't about free speech," said Rochelle Wilner, president of B'nai Brith Canada. "Targeted missionizing, especially when done in a manner calculated to deceive the unsuspecting, is offensive to our community. Christianity is not a branch of Judaism it's a different religion altogether, and any attempt to portray it as anything but a different religion is subterfuge. "The term 'Jews for Jesus' makes about as much sense as 'Baptists for Buddha' or 'Catholics for Krishna,'" she said.

"We didn't want this to be just another lesson in how to answer," said Frank Dimant, executive vice president.

"Some in our community are simply not capable of countering missionaries because they have received little formal Jewish education.

"We want members of our community to know that they don't have to defend Judaism to Christian missionaries they have an absolute right to not be subjected to these ministrations in the first place."

Dr. Charles McVety, president of Canada Christian College and a leader in Canada's evangelical Christian community, spoke as well. "As a committed Christian I support the idea of preaching Christianity, but preaching Christianity under the guise of Judaism to those who are in fact seeking Judaism, is plainly wrong," said McVety.

"We unequivocally denounce any and all deceptive tactics."

[MarkL]

Is "Jew" only a religion? If I am a German pagan and convert to Christianity, am I no longer a German?

I don't know that I agree that Jews are a "race." Judism is a religion, and you can convert to Judism. I was born in America. My parents were born in America. I am an American, who happens to be a Jew. In response to your answer, If I convert to another religion, I will still be an American. Will I still be a Jew? Well, according to Adolf Hitler, and many others of his ilk, I would still be an "unter mensch."

Mark

[adam_az]

He doesn't believe any of that happened.

Go read his posting history. He's one twisted individual, possible even weirder than Illbay was.

[Gil4]

The Jewish heritage is both national and religious, so there are (many) people who are Jews in nationality only. Jews for Jesus makes perfect sense because one does not cease to be a Jew (in the national sense) upon becoming a Christian any more than one ceases to b an American upon becoming one.

I believe the term Jew derives from Judah, one of the 12 tribes. After the reign of Solomon the nation was split into the northern kingdon (which retained the name Israel) and the southern kingdom (Judah). Judah was the tribe with the biggest chunk of land.

[Steve_Seattle]

"One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. Just stating a fact."

Who in Judaism officially decides who the messiah is? Over the centuries, there have been numerous men (e.g., bar Kochba) other than Jesus who were proclaimed by their followers to be the Messiah. Were these people not Jews either? I've never heard any Jews say that the followers of bar Kochba ceased to be Jews because of that fact.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

I have no problem with Christian pride or Euro-American pride.

Agreed. When pride is scapegoated into racism or such, its not right.

But attacking others and smearing them is not pride, and it is transparent.

[Question_Assumptions]

Actually, I think it's more like "Christians for Muhammed." While I wouldn't personally agree with it, I can imagine how a Christian might become a convert to Islam and given that Jesus is also a figure in Islam decide to adopt Islam through a Christian lens or adapt the Christian holidays to a more Muslim flavor. Given all the Jews that not only leave their faith through marriage but also those who simply stop believing (i.e., "atheist Jews"), I really don't understand the special problem that Jews seem to have with Jews for Jesus. And frankly, I wish Christianity would embrace more of its Jewish origins.

[onyx]

Thank you for both of your posts. Most interesting and enlightening. You seem sound and happy to me. ;-)

[Steve_Seattle]

Once you get involved in real Buddhism, as opposed to theoretical Buddhism, it because very much like a Western religion. This is particularly true of Tibetan Buddhism, with its various "deities" such as Tara and Chenrezig who are prayed to in a way similar to the way in which Catholics pray to saints. The theory is different, but the practice is very similar.

[adam_az]

But attacking others and smearing them is not pride, and it is transparent.

If only you would follow your own advice, hypocrite.

[cookcounty]

"One of the main tennants [sic] of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another.

In the second century, Rabbi Akiba, one of the great sages of rabbinical tradition, proclaimed Simon bar Kochba to be the Messiah. ----Did Akiba cease to be Jewish?

An odd and interesting sidebar to the Akiba / bar Kochba revolt is the fact that Jewish followers of Jesus were isolated from the main body of Jews not all at once, but step-by-step. When Akiba proclaimed bar Kochba the Messiah, the Jewish Christians (or whatever you'd like to call them) were further alienated from the rest of the Jewish community because they refused to accept a false messiah.

The Jewish followers of Jesus continued as a recognizable group until shortly after the Council of Nicea in the 4th century, when the Council ordered that they should no longer be allowed to observe Passover.

Many of these early "Jews for Jesus" could not bring themselves to accept the divinity of Jesus and the "Trinity." Others managed to find enough room within the term "echad" for a "collective unity" which harmonizes with the concept of the Trinity, (3 persons, one indivisible essence).

[Dataman]

I guess we agree that "Jew" isn't a race any more than "Arab" is a race. Caucasoid is a race as is Negroid and Mongoloid.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

This is about one group attacking another group and trying to limit their freedom by smearing them and attacking them via the media, without the JfJ being allowed to defend themselves.

When I say victim, I purely mean it in current sense, as it has become a culture in 2003 USA. I am not addressing history as it has nothing to do with this exact situation. I can also speak of how many MILLIONS of my people were murdered in the last 100 years, but I don't. It has nothing to do with 2003 USA.

This is an outright attack on a religious group, and anyone who defends it is part of the problem. The way that groups like this try to limit freedom is blatant and unacceptable.

Look at all the posts. People are too informed to buy this crap anymore.

[adam_az]

There are lots of sects of Buddhism.

I'm talking about what Buddha taught, which was not religion.

Gautama was born a Hindu, but abandoned Hinduism.

The schools that followed Buddha's teachings in their original forms were wiped out in the Islamic invasion.

Since then Buddhism has been Hindicized, including the use of idols and statues.

Many Christian sects had similar things happen. Most Christian rituals have pagan, not Jewish roots. Jesus early followers were Jews, but his modern day followers are descended primarily from Gentiles who brought their practices with them. Even going back to Roman times, many Christian rituals were really adapted from the cult of Mithraism.

[joesnuffy]

You cant be a Jew and be a Christian?
How is it you can be an atheist and still be a Jew?
wierd imo

[AnalogReigns]

One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event.

Not to be contentious, but just where is it written in what Jewish people universally acknowlege as God's inspired word, the Torah, that one must believe that the Messiah has not yet come? The Torah was complete long before Jesus came--just what if, what if--Jewish leaders and rabbis then and since were wrong about Jesus???

Certainly its clear that Christianity was originally a Jewish sect, started and originally organized by Jews (with only 2 of the 27 books of the New Testament being written by a Gentile) which was disowned by the Jewish leadership of the time... Why do certain rabbis then (and now) get to define what Judaism is exactly?

The ironic thing is many Jewish people profess no faith at all--being either agnostic or openly atheist--yet the ONLY ones loudly decried by the Orthodox as NOT being Jewish are those who follow a particular humble Jewish carpenter....

[At _War_With_Liberals]

Your reportoise consists of spouting rhetoric and talking points that are transparent in their nature. You believe in limiting free speech, by govt order, if necessary, to quiet beliefs opposed to yours.

You are also obsessed with Christian issues, and come out against the Christian position every single time. YOU are the sick one, THE HATER. It's transparent and everyone can see it.

I am not a religious person, but I am not going to sit by while fascists like you spew their crap.

[LiteKeeper]

Christianity is not a branch of Judaism it's a different religion altogether, and any attempt to portray it as anything but a different religion is subterfuge. "The term 'Jews for Jesus' makes about as much sense as 'Baptists for Buddha' or 'Catholics for Krishna,'" she said.

She couldn't be more wrong. Jesus was a Jew, Paul was a Jew (even a member of the Sanhedrin), Peter was a Jew, all of the apostles were Jews...what is she talking about?

[AnalogReigns]

Most Christian rituals have pagan, not Jewish roots.Give me a break, show me the evidence dude. The only rituals practiced in my church (and Protestant churches universally) are described in detail in the New Testament. Time an again the New Testament has been shown to be a collection of authentic first century documents--95% of which by Jesus' disciples themselves.

Baptism and the Lord's Supper were both instituted by Jews (John the Baptist and Jesus) described in detail in the New Testament following a pattern of previous Jewish rites, namely circumcision (initiation) and Passover (regular celebration of salvation). The idea that Christianity is a pagan Roman mystery cult which survived is an old tale, long ago disproven.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"But attacking others and smearing them is not pride, and it is transparent.

If only you would follow your own advice, hypocrite."

Why don't you show me how I am attacking? I am critiquing their position, not denying their right to say it.

They (and you), on the other hand, want to deny the JfJ the right to free speech and free association by lying about the group's use of coercion.

You would like the state to outlaw this. You are a fascist.