Police shoot, kill man

Press Enterprise (Bloomsburg, PA) ^ | 8/22/2003 | Susan Schwartz

[Born Conservative]

MOCANAQUA — State police shot and killed a man who was swinging a garden rake at them while his horrified wife or girlfriend and neighbors watched, witnesses said.

Life Flight was called to help the man neighbors identified as Edward Vega, of 121 Italy St., after he was shot in the chest around 6 p.m. But the Life Flight doctor declared him dead, and the helicopter took off without him, said Dr. George Hudock Jr., county coroner.

A pool of blood and the garden rake remained in the middle of the road. State police strung crime-scene tape to block the street. A forensics team arrived on the scene, and a trooper began interviewing neighbors. The road was still closed off at 9:30 p.m.

It's unclear how the incident began. Channel 28 reported that state police said Vega and a woman who lived in the house with him had been fighting. The woman reportedly called police and said Vega was violating a protection from abuse order.

Neighbors, who said they feared to give their names or get involved, said they came out of their homes to see the man they knew as Ed in the roadway swinging tree branches at two state troopers.

They said Ed backed away toward his detached garage, where he dropped the branches, grabbed the metal rake and began swinging that at the officers.

That's when one trooper, about three steps away from the raging man, fired the shot, the neighbors said.

The man's wife or girlfriend ran into the street, crying and covering him with kisses, they said.

Neighbors recall friendly man

Neighbors said the couple had four children, with a fifth on the way.

Some neighbors said they had seen police cars at the house before.

But several said they were shocked by the shooting.

One weeping woman was gently escorted away by a trooper. Other stunned neighbors watched the troopers from their porches or the sidewalk.

Johnny Cielli, 81, of 102 Italy St., said the man he knew only as Ed and his family had moved into the neat white house with red trim just a few months ago.

Ed was a small man, weighing only 130 to 140 pounds, he said. Cielli used to walk by his house every day.

"I'd see him, and he'd always say 'Hi,'" Cielli said. "He had a little dog, and he'd tell me, 'Don't worry about the dog. He won't bite you.'"

Annette Knorowski, 56, of 126 Pond Hill Road, stared when she saw the police tape and heard what had happened.

"Oh my God, he was such a nice guy," she said.

She said she baby-sat two children in a house just down the street from Ed's home.

She would walk by his house while she took the youngest girl out in her carriage.

Ed always smiled and talked to her, she said.

Sometimes, he would walk with her on his way to do gardening work around the town.

"He told me it was a nice town, that everyone kept the street so nice and clean, that the people were so friendly," she said.

He was always busy, doing yard work for people, she said.

Another time, he stopped by the house where she worked and dropped off some flyers advertising a new house cleaning service he and his wife were offering, he said.

"He was a hard worker," she said. "He was always going someplace to do something for somebody.

"If he just had a rake, they shouldn't have shot him," she said.

State troopers said they would not release a statement about the shooting until their investigation was completed.

Hudock said he would be conducting an autopsy this morning at Wilkes-Barre General Hospital.

[Rifleman]

Read the article eric. Jelly didn't start out as a fibbie.

And real cops probably spit on someone that finds it necessary to shoot a man armed with a stick.

[r9etb]

Executing a guy with a rake does NOT qualify as good police work.

"Executing."

Good to see you're keeping an open mind on this case, about which you know almost none of the facts.

[TC Rider]

yada,yada.. You want to talk about bad training and the equipment you think every police officer has with them.

blah, blah, blah

The Pensylvanina Highway Patrol is the pre-eminent law enforcement body in PA, are you telling me they have no budget for batons, OC, etc? (I'm sure Hillary would tell us it's Bush's fault)

Some poorly equiped PSP members:

You don't know me at all, when you speak of my contempt for police. I have served with PA Highway Patrolmen and in the past counted them amongst my friends. I save my contempt for cops who shoot first. Like any other profession there are good and bad members. In law enforcement, the bad must go.

I socialize and shoot with cops every weekend.

All the cops I know, would probably agree with me, based on the articles, that these cops are bad actors, give the rest a bad name and should seek other employment opportunities.

I've explained myself enough, why do you defend these cops, based on these articles?

Do you defend their use of deadly force, before using OC, batons, etc?

How could a rake have been used in a deadly manner by a little guy against two cops in body armor?

Should the cops have taken him into custody when he was across the street behaving calmly?

Is it good police work to allow a situation to escalate so badly?

Why didn't the cops back off from the suspect to give him a chance to 'wind down' before plugging him?

Have you read the 'candlestick' thread where the cop shot a delusional women swinging a candlestick? Do you feel that was justified?

Are you of the opinion that cops can do no wrong? Do you realize the harm of that in a free republic?

[TC Rider]

I'm sorry that you think force can ever be escalated in a logical manner!

Ah, now we're back to training. I have a CCW and the law expects me to escalate force in a logical manner or go to jail. The police are held to a higher standard, or should get out.

I'm going to have a beer with Porterville while you stew.

[r9etb]

... based on the articles, that these cops are bad actors....

But that's just the problem. These cops may be bad actors, or they may have acted properly. We just don't know -- we've only got a couple of news articles to go from.

[Shryke]

Hitting the police with a rake is still not a capital offense in America.

This is incorrect. Hitting a police officer (or anyone for that matter) with any object that can puncture his skin, or permanently damage or scar him is considered deadly force, and if he dies, is a capital crime.

Apparently this guy used a hard-toothed rake, while in a rage. You three seem to think that you could disarm an eraged wife-beater armed with such a rake easily. As I have stated before, find someone who dislikes you intensely, get him raging, and give him the rake. You arm yourself with pepper spray (which the officers may not have had) and a two foot police baton. And remember, you have to disarm this guy, no backing off.

I promise you will lose, and very quickly. Had the police officer that was injured been alone, I would imagine he would be dead or seriously injured.

[usadave]

so much for the term "peace officer" .... I guess those days are over

Life's Lesson #374 = Don't swing a garden rake at a police officer if you want to live to a ripe old age.

[usadave]

I sometimes wonder if cops, in certain situations, simply become judge jury& executioner....and nobody knows the difference

...or even cares, as in this case.

[usadave]

Taser, pepper spray, bean bag gun, rubber bullets, baton....all less lethal alternatives.

I think that we've all read accounts of suspects who were under the influence of certain drugs, and because of this, were not effected by non-lethal devices such as Tasers, pepper spray, bean bag guns, and rubber bullets.

[xsrdx]

The police are under no obiligation to take a beating or risk injury in order to prevent injury to a clearly violent perp bent on their destruction.

This could have been done differently, but it's unreasonable to expect police to sustain severe injury just to keep this guy from ending up KIA.

If you verbally and physically threaten an armed police officer, and persist in attempting to injure said police officer in spite of verbal warnings to desist, you risk ending up ventilated.

From the article, it appears this guy had the ability and intent to kill or seriously injure the officers on the scene, and was not responding to verbal commands.

[usadave]

Executing a guy with a rake does NOT qualify as good police work.

But the suspect was trying to execute the police officers.

[Badray]

"Here in Penna, that's self-defense."

Don't be so sure. It depends on the DA. The jury may acquit you, but that doesn't mean that you won't go thru system and hell first.

[MEGoody]

"The man's wife or girlfriend ran into the street, crying and covering him with kisses, they said."

This is the same man she had the protection order against?

[MEGoody]

"Really??? So if your neighbor comes over and 'threatens you with a rake' you can just blow 'em away?"

If someone was swinging a rake at you in a manner which can maim or kill (and those heavy rakes could do both), then you have the right to defend yourself, cop or homeowner.

Now whether charges would be filed or not is another story. We've all heard about charges being filed against someone who defended themselves against an intruder, etc.

[Born Conservative]

The Luzerne County district attorney's office and state police are now deciding whether a trooper should have shot and killed a man. It happened Wednesday evening in Mocanaqua. Eddie Vega, 36, of Mocanaqua was shot outside his home on by a trooper.

Troopers were called to the home on Park Street for a domestic argument. Newswatch 16 has learned Vega had a violent past. The district attorney says Vega came after troopers with a weapon. A witness says it was a garden rake.

Troopers were called about a protection from abuse order violation. Vega was arguing with his girlfriend, Christina Shatrosky. Despite the order they lived together. "It's my understanding they had to shoot him. I don't feel that way. I would think they'd shoot at his legs and get him down on the ground and then continue on to what they had to do," said neighbor Mary Beth Merva.

"Having children it's disturbing that someone might have been a threat in our neighborhood. I had met Eddie several times and he seemed like a very friendly, nice man. It was very shocking and surprising," said neighbor Michelle Correll.

Troopers were back at the scene Thursday talking to neighbors and witnesses and digging into Vega's background. Court papers say three months ago, Vega attacked Shatrosky, choking her. According to court documents, the attack three months ago wasn't the first. Christina Shatrosky wrote, "In the past, Eddie Vega has pushed me down stairs, broken my nose, kicked me punched me in the face, pulled my hair and has been abusive to me while being pregnant with my daughter."

"That's part of the investigation, to look into the past history and background of the participants," said District Attorney Dave Lupas.

"I know he had many difficulties and the police were here on different occasions but I'd still like to see a person live and not die," said Merva.

A police source says so far the investigation shows the trooper was justified in shooting Vega.  We do know that police are trained to use deadly force when they feel their lives or the lives of others are in danger.  The district attorney will decide if the shooting was justified.  

This is an article on the same incident posted on the website of a local TV station.

The key points in this article are:

1. Vega had a violent past

2. A witness says it was a garden rake (as opposed to a flexible tine leaf rake)

3. Troopers were called about a protection from abuse order violation. Vega was arguing with his girlfriend, Christina Shatrosky

4. "In the past, Eddie Vega has pushed me down stairs, broken my nose, kicked me punched me in the face, pulled my hair and has been abusive to me while being pregnant with my daughter."

5. A police source says so far the investigation shows the trooper was justified in shooting Vega. (although this does not yet PROVE that he was justified)

 

 

[ActionNewsBill]

If I have a police baton and a partner, I could block your rake swing with the baton while my partner gets inside YOUR defense zone and whacks you a few with HIS baton.

Where's the fun in that? That would require some actual common sense.

[MEGoody]

"If the cop can't keep his cool and uses his anger (or fear) to immediately escalate to the maximum lethal force that he possesses, he shouldn't be on the force."

The story merely calls this a 'garden rake' but there are two kinds that I can think of off the top of my head.

One kind is sort of 'floppy,' and it wouldn't be so easy to hurt someone if you hit them with it unless you just happened to get them right in the eye or something.

The second kind has thick, metal, 3 - 4" tines that could mutilate or kill pretty easily.

If the guy had the latter type of rake, and if he was swinging it around as the story indicates, the the cops were justified in shooting him.

[Badray]

"Despite the order they lived together."

You posted it. Did you miss it? How do you expect to have a valid PFA if you choose to live with the man who threatened you?

I agree that a rake can be a lethal weapon. But, the dangerous part of the attack is at the end of the rake. A knife or sword presents a different problem and I'd agree with the shoot. But with a rake, once swung without contact, you move in close and the not only can't he swing it, he can't get you with the sharp pointy things. A billy club from that point is all that is needed. Maybe the guy is scum, but it seems all too often that cops kill first when they used to know how to use the club effectively.

[comnet]

Police chief wants noncitizens as cops{"people who have not sworn allegiance to the U.S}
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b591b067786.htm

[Erik Latranyi]

"And real cops probably spit on someone that finds it necessary to shoot a man armed with a stick. "


No, real police spit on those that are quick to judge before they know the facts.