Police shoot, kill man

Press Enterprise (Bloomsburg, PA) ^ | 8/22/2003 | Susan Schwartz

[TC Rider]

Do you realize the word 'Berserk' was not used in the original article? That it was in the 2nd article post at 105? I can read, but I'm not prescient. If you're not prescient, why did you feel it necessary to dispense judgment on a case for which you clearly did not have all the facts? (Why does everone keep questioning my literacy today?) Maybe because you're acting like a jerk, questioning others' literacy?

Why are you changing the subject? You asked if I read the word 'Berserk', I illustrated that the word was used in a article posted while I was framing a reply to an earlier post.

Eric started this idiocy of asking if I could read, and you seem to have jumped on the bandwagon. I believe I've shown that in both cases I've 'read' correctly.

FR is about expressing opinions. Sorry if you think I'm a jerk, but, in my opinion, cops executing guys with rakes is extreme. In my opinion, the cops performed their task poorly by not escalating force in a logical manner, exhausting the non-lethal solutions to their problem before resorting to shooting to death a man guilty of violating a court order.

[Erik Latranyi]

"No, you show you have never been in violent situations, so, I must assume you don't know anything. "

If you claim that even a highly trained police officer should shoot a perp in the arm/leg while being struck by a rake is the proper technique, then you demonstrate that your ignorance on this issue.

Also, since you were so quick to criticize the police before you had the facts clearly demonstrates an agenda that taints all your posts.

[Erik Latranyi]

"Sorry if you think I'm a jerk, but, in my opinion, cops executing guys with rakes is extreme. In my opinion, the cops performed their task poorly by not escalating force in a logical manner, exhausting the non-lethal solutions to their problem before resorting to shooting to death a man guilty of violating a court order. "

I'm sorry that you think force can ever be escalated in a logical manner!

[Erik Latranyi]

"king can do no wrong" crowd???"

I'd rather be an optimist and give the king the benefit of the doubt rather than convict all kings and shoot first.

Your statements against the police officers in this case parallel what you accuse them of.

You shoot off your mouth first before you know the facts.

[Porterville]

I don't care anymore, just stew in your chair, I won't post to you anymore.

[r9etb]

Do you wish to upset me by calling my suggestions stupid??

It is quite true that I wish to call your suggestions stupid. The decision to become upset belongs to you alone.

By insulting my brother????

Relax. It was only a contingent insult. If he knows better than to shoot at moving arms and legs in a crowded area, then he's not been insulted at all. But if he doesn't know better, then he deserves the insult, and more.

Sit back, do your accounting, and let the rest of us help people who are in dire situations,

I don't see how sending bullets into the surrounding crowd "helps people." In fact, I'd say that following your stupid suggestions would make their situation even more dire.

you clearly are out of your league.

If stupidity is a requirement to play in your league, then I count myself very fortunate to be out of it.

[Ghengis]

Where does a cop draw the line? They could have just shot the guy in the leg, or used mace. He AND the rake would have gone down.

Police do not train to shoot to wound. A police officer is trained to stop force with the necessary amount of force. If someone is using deadly force, a police officer is trained to stop this force with his/her own deadly force.

It could be easily shown that a garden rake could likely cause serious injury or death to the police officer. If he shoots, he shoots at center mass in the chest. Shooting that target area is most likely to stop the attack. The officer will now be required to demonstrate that deadly force was a necessary option based on the assault.

[Erik Latranyi]

"I don't care anymore, just stew in your chair, I won't post to you anymore. "

Sounds like someone is crying 'uncle'!

[Centurion2000]

Hitting a police officer allows the use of deadly force.

Period.

Maybe in the police state that you live in.

Thank God I'm in Texas then where there are AT LEAST 7 levels in the use of force and police have to follow those guidelines in terms of escalating force.

[Centurion2000]

Say what? I have a CC permit and i'm held to really strict standards

I do as well; which is why cops should be held to the same standard that WE are.

[Erik Latranyi]

"Thank God I'm in Texas then where there are AT LEAST 7 levels in the use of force and police have to follow those guidelines in terms of escalating force."


And I am sure that while they are being struck by a metal rake that they are counting up before they draw their sidearm!

[Porterville]

I won't play rooster with you, I'm convinced you don't know anything about these situations either. So, you and Eric can play cops and robbers on this post.

[LibWhacker]

Okay, this is not for you SS girly men . . . Just pass it on by and go spitshine your jackboots or something.

As for everyone else, here is the story of a REAL man, who knew HOW to shoot and knew WHEN to shoot. It's good stuff and will remind you of the good old days.

As far as I know, Jelly Bryce never once gunned down a scrawny little guy with branches in his hand, or a skinny little dude with a rake in his hand, or delirious little runt who was holding a puppy and waving it around in a threatening manner. No, he was something those other guys have no conception of and only believe exists in the movies.

Read now the story of The FBI'S Legendary Sharpshooter - Jelly Bryce :-)

[Ghengis]

granted there are circumstances where that would be inappropriate, but this seems like the kind of situation that could be calmed down by a very loud gunshot into the air.

You're in a populated area and you let a bullet loose with no target? That piece of lead has to land somewhere. That is why police officers do not fire warning shots.

[Erik Latranyi]

FBI Agents do not handle domestic disputes with drunk, doped up violent men.

Nice try, though.

[Erik Latranyi]

"granted there are circumstances where that would be inappropriate, but this seems like the kind of situation that could be calmed down by a very loud gunshot into the air."

"You're in a populated area and you let a bullet loose with no target? That piece of lead has to land somewhere. That is why police officers do not fire warning shots. "

Pennsylvania does not allow the police to use warning shots.

[Centurion2000]

I'm sorry that you think force can ever be escalated in a logical manner!

Actually it can be escalated in a perfectly logical manner. If the cop can't keep his cool and uses his anger (or fear) to immediately escalate to the maximum lethal force that he possesses, he shouldn't be on the force.

And yes, cops do get paid to risk injury or death to keep the peace and enforce the law. Executing a guy with a rake does NOT qualify as good police work.

[Centurion2000]

And I am sure that while they are being struck by a metal rake that they are counting up before they draw their sidearm!

The rake corresponds to the nightstick ESPECIALLY when they outnumber the criminal. The knife and the gun demand the response with the firearm.

Was the guy wrong? Absolutely, but he should be alive to pay for his crime. This is a bad shoot.

[Rifleman]

It is simple. A cop killed a guy for being a troublemaking arsehole and for resisting arrest. A professional peace officer could have controlled the perp and the situation either with words or with measured force. These clowns will get away with it too, probably won't even lose their jobs let alone go to jail like they should.

And I never said it was easy. I said that a professional ought to be able to do his job. These guys couldn't.

[r9etb]

I won't play rooster with you....

No problem -- I had you pegged as a different barnyard animal anyway.