Police shoot, kill man

Press Enterprise (Bloomsburg, PA) ^ | 8/22/2003 | Susan Schwartz

[Born Conservative]

MOCANAQUA — State police shot and killed a man who was swinging a garden rake at them while his horrified wife or girlfriend and neighbors watched, witnesses said.

Life Flight was called to help the man neighbors identified as Edward Vega, of 121 Italy St., after he was shot in the chest around 6 p.m. But the Life Flight doctor declared him dead, and the helicopter took off without him, said Dr. George Hudock Jr., county coroner.

A pool of blood and the garden rake remained in the middle of the road. State police strung crime-scene tape to block the street. A forensics team arrived on the scene, and a trooper began interviewing neighbors. The road was still closed off at 9:30 p.m.

It's unclear how the incident began. Channel 28 reported that state police said Vega and a woman who lived in the house with him had been fighting. The woman reportedly called police and said Vega was violating a protection from abuse order.

Neighbors, who said they feared to give their names or get involved, said they came out of their homes to see the man they knew as Ed in the roadway swinging tree branches at two state troopers.

They said Ed backed away toward his detached garage, where he dropped the branches, grabbed the metal rake and began swinging that at the officers.

That's when one trooper, about three steps away from the raging man, fired the shot, the neighbors said.

The man's wife or girlfriend ran into the street, crying and covering him with kisses, they said.

Neighbors recall friendly man

Neighbors said the couple had four children, with a fifth on the way.

Some neighbors said they had seen police cars at the house before.

But several said they were shocked by the shooting.

One weeping woman was gently escorted away by a trooper. Other stunned neighbors watched the troopers from their porches or the sidewalk.

Johnny Cielli, 81, of 102 Italy St., said the man he knew only as Ed and his family had moved into the neat white house with red trim just a few months ago.

Ed was a small man, weighing only 130 to 140 pounds, he said. Cielli used to walk by his house every day.

"I'd see him, and he'd always say 'Hi,'" Cielli said. "He had a little dog, and he'd tell me, 'Don't worry about the dog. He won't bite you.'"

Annette Knorowski, 56, of 126 Pond Hill Road, stared when she saw the police tape and heard what had happened.

"Oh my God, he was such a nice guy," she said.

She said she baby-sat two children in a house just down the street from Ed's home.

She would walk by his house while she took the youngest girl out in her carriage.

Ed always smiled and talked to her, she said.

Sometimes, he would walk with her on his way to do gardening work around the town.

"He told me it was a nice town, that everyone kept the street so nice and clean, that the people were so friendly," she said.

He was always busy, doing yard work for people, she said.

Another time, he stopped by the house where she worked and dropped off some flyers advertising a new house cleaning service he and his wife were offering, he said.

"He was a hard worker," she said. "He was always going someplace to do something for somebody.

"If he just had a rake, they shouldn't have shot him," she said.

State troopers said they would not release a statement about the shooting until their investigation was completed.

Hudock said he would be conducting an autopsy this morning at Wilkes-Barre General Hospital.

[r9etb]

Do you think they should have shot him???

I couldn't really say, based on the articles. Clearly the man represented a danger to others, including the cops. That's about all I know, though.

Could they have shot him in the leg??

No -- he was advancing. As with shooting him in the arm (sheesh!!), it would be stupid and dangerous to try to hit a narrow target, attached to a man who's advancing rapidly toward me with a weapon. Not to mention the presence of other people who might be hit by my inevitable miss. You know this, of course. You're just thrashing around for a reason not to aim at the guy's center of mass.

Do you know how to shoot a gun??

Yes.

Finally, do you feel that these cops were a little over zealous and rookie like to be in a situation where they would shoot a man with a rake?

What I feel is that you've got a chip on your shoulder about cops, and are framing a question to draw me into an answer different from the one I gave above, which is that I don't know enough about the situation to express an opinion.

[Rifleman]

A cop who cannot take a rake (of any type) away from a 140# hysteric without killing him is in the wrong line of business. As to what I would have done, assuming that I were a cop and not a middle aged fat guy who minds his own business...I would have used my pepper spray and my nightstick and my handcuffs to disarm and restrain the miscreant. I would not have shot him down for contempt of cop like this punk did.

[Erik Latranyi]

"A cop who cannot take a rake (of any type) away from a 140# hysteric without killing him is in the wrong line of business. As to what I would have done, assuming that I were a cop and not a middle aged fat guy who minds his own business...I would have used my pepper spray and my nightstick and my handcuffs to disarm and restrain the miscreant. I would not have shot him down for contempt of cop like this punk did"

Is your real name Arnold Schwartzenegger? You are just like a movie hero.

Your thoughts are lost in Hollywood as well.

[Erik Latranyi]

Ah, the pictures from someone losing an argument.

[TC Rider]

I know of too many men under 'protection from abuse orders' who have never laid a hand on their wife or girlfriend. It's a common ploy of women to punish men when a relationship sours. If you can read, you may want to read the part again about the wife/girlfriend lavishing kisses on Ed's corpse.

And if you can read, you may want to read the part again about how the nice man had gone "berserk" before he was shot.

Yes, I can read, can you?

Can you figure out that my post 107 was a reply to post 103?

Do you realize the word 'Berserk' was not used in the original article? That it was in the 2nd article post at 105?

I can read, but I'm not prescient.

I'll accept your apology now.

(Why does everone keep questioning my literacy today?)

[The Coopster]

Find me a quality training program ANYWHERE that advocates/trains for shooting to wound. You won't find it. How fast can you move your hands/feet/head? Now hit that target. That's Hollywood/trick shooting, and you can't plan on it.

Now-

Maybe the trooper was justified in using deadly force, maybe not. I/we don't know for sure. But you've never heard the term "painful force/wounding force", have you?

If it is warranted that you pull the trigger, you shoot to kill. Period. I hope for your sake that you train the same way. Any hesitation, especially from only 10 feet away may cost you your life.

[Porterville]

My brother is a cop... so how does that work that I have a chip on my shoulder??? My brother wouldn't be so reckless.

[Erik Latranyi]

I enjoy your need to dwell on the insignificant.

You want to talk about bad training and the equipment you think every police officer has with them.

Frankly, I think police officers do not train enough with their weapons and other equipment.

I also know that officers do not always have kevlar gloves and your other 'wish-list' equipment. Local departments are rarely funded properly. This also leads to a lack of training.

"Two or more officers should have been able to disarm this guy without a scratch. If they can't, they don't belong on the force."

Two officers cannot always restrain a perp if he/she is drunk or on drugs. Your statement is invalid and demonstrates your lack of understanding of the job.

"yawn, there is some level of assumed risk when you put on the badge. Scratches and a few drops of blood are not license for execution"

As I said earlier, your contempt for the police is transparent. You sound like you just want to throw police bodies at a situation without regard for their safety.

I did not call you names. I did accuse you of not reading the second article I posted closely enough to recognize that this perp landed some blows onto the police prior to the shooting. Therefore, you were wrong about him retreating only.

I am not a liberal, but a conservative that gives the benefit of the doubt to those we trust to protect us. I gather the facts first, then inquire into the discrepancies. If there is wrong-doing, it needs to be punished quickly and severely.

Police in NE PA are not always properly equipped. That is true.

I believe that while I may have crossed some imaginary line in your head. I am looking at the facts with an open mind and have not convicted the police prior to all the facts. From what I read, this is a violent man that attacked police officers and was shot for it.

If you think criticizing the police in your manner is going to win over any converts -- you are wrong.

[r9etb]

Do you realize the word 'Berserk' was not used in the original article? That it was in the 2nd article post at 105?

I can read, but I'm not prescient.

If you're not prescient, why did you feel it necessary to dispense judgement on a case for which you clearly did not have all the facts?

(Why does everone keep questioning my literacy today?)

Maybe because you're acting like a jerk, questioning others' literacy?

[Rifleman]

Eric, can you read? I never claimed to be an action hero. And what does that last sentence mean? I can't make any sense of it. But a professional peace officer does not have to escalate a violent incident to deadly force just because the perp resists. A professional can enforce compliance with the skills that he should have learned before he took the job. And polished afterward.

A pussy who puts his manhood on with the leather, uniform, gun and badge is a different story of course.

[r9etb]

My brother is a cop... so how does that work that I have a chip on my shoulder??? My brother wouldn't be so reckless.

Your brother wouldn't be so stupid as to try to shoot moving arms or legs, either.

[Porterville]

I wonder if you have ever been in a violent situation where you had to keep your cool... I wonder if you ever had someone come at you with a knife.... I wonder if you ever had someone swing a punch at you.... I'm guessing NOPE...

[Porterville]

You don't know anything and don't use my brother to insult me, call me names but don't insult me using my family.

[Erik Latranyi]

Rifleman:

I believe you are missing the point. The police did not escalate the incident. The perp escalated the incident by striking the officers with a rake. They shot him in self-defense.

You wrote about how easy it is to disarm a 140 lb man with a rake. That is fantasy-land. Hollywood stuff.

I don't think the police in this case were cowards or "pussies" as you so eloquently put it. They went there for the most dangerous assignment a police officer gets -- a domestic dispute. More officers are killed/injured in these cases than in any other.

You want to look at the case in a too simplistic manner.

[Porterville]

Jesus, you really never ever been in a dangerous situation before have you???

[r9etb]

You don't know anything and don't use my brother to insult me, call me names but don't insult me using my family.

I do know that you made two really stupid suggestions.

I truly hope your brother the cop knows better. If he doesn't, you should probably score this as an insult to him, too.

[Erik Latranyi]

My past experience is not at issue here.

Too many people are too quick to condemn the police here.

That is my point.

Get it?

[Erik Latranyi]

Obviously, you know nothing about firearms as you are advocating that the police, in the middle of being struck by a rake, should take steady aim and shoot the perp in the arm or leg.

Keep digging. Your hole will be ready soon.

[Porterville]

Look jack, you appear to be pretty unexperienced in these situations, you think insulting people is going to change the fact that you are part of the "king can do no wrong" crowd??? What point is it to say things like that to me??? Do you wish to upset me by calling my suggestions stupid?? By insulting my brother???? Sit back, do your accounting, and let the rest of us help people who are in dire situations, you clearly are out of your league.

[Porterville]

No, you show you have never been in violent situations, so, I must assume you don't know anything.